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Old 06-28-2020, 08:06 AM   #1
Raekai
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Default Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

Hey, all!

I could've sworn that I saw something about finer levels for Resistant in response to the change in the Dungeon Fantasy RPG that made Resistant to Poison and Resistant to Disease each worth 1 point/level. And I could've sworn that whether Immunity was essentially Resistant 10 or Resistant 15 was part of that too, or maybe I saw that in a supplement somewhere.

Either way, how would you handle it? Having Resistant to Poison and Resistant to Disease points to Immunity being either Resistant 10 or Resistant 15 since, in the Basic Set, Immunity to Poison is 15 points while Immunity to Disease is 10 points. Of course, neither perfectly fits either way as Resistant isn't set up to follow a linear pattern.

Maybe it makes more sense to look at the established rarities. How many points per +1 to HT rolls is rare, occasional, common, and very common worth? Or do you think that this is a bad idea, and that Resistant should have a non-linear cost?

Thanks!
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

I would think that +15 would be comparable (it gives a HT 10 person a 95% chance of resisting a -10 effect), though Immunity is a little more powerful than Resistant because you never have to roll and you are immune to things that do not allow a roll. For example, 1 CP/+1 for Resistant to Poison or 2 CP/+1 for Resistant to Metabolic Hazards would likely be fine.
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

Zombies, page 54, puts it at roughly +15. Specifically, this is for certain hazards that call for an HT roll from those who aren't immune, but could cause structural damage even for the immune (like intense radiation), and failure reduces HT rather than having its normal effect. That's the only relevant data point I'm aware of, however.
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Old 06-28-2020, 09:56 AM   #4
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Zombies, page 54, puts it at roughly +15. Specifically, this is for certain hazards that call for an HT roll from those who aren't immune, but could cause structural damage even for the immune (like intense radiation), and failure reduces HT rather than having its normal effect. That's the only relevant data point I'm aware of, however.
Zombies says Immunity to Metabolic Hazards [30] makes you immune to Metabolic Hazards and gives a +15 bonus to HT rolls to resist Pressure, Radiation and Temperature. Meltdown and Fallout gives Rules for a 5 point Immunity to Radiation and more detailed rules for beings with Immunity to Metabolic Hazards and radiation.
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:04 AM   #5
Raekai
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

Sounds like it's worth about +15 to me, then!

So, very common would be 2 points/level, common and occasional would be about 1 point/level, and I would say that rare is 1 point/level but gives +2/level.

As a side note, for what it's worth, it'd be a nice way to unify Resistant, High Pain Threshold, Hard to Kill/Subdue, Temperature Tolerance, etc. into a single advantage. If Pyramid were still around, I'd be tempted to throw this out there...
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Old 06-29-2020, 08:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

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Originally Posted by Raekai View Post
Sounds like it's worth about +15 to me, then!

So, very common would be 2 points/level, common and occasional would be about 1 point/level, and I would say that rare is 1 point/level but gives +2/level.

As a side note, for what it's worth, it'd be a nice way to unify Resistant, High Pain Threshold, Hard to Kill/Subdue, Temperature Tolerance, etc. into a single advantage. If Pyramid were still around, I'd be tempted to throw this out there...
High Pain Threshold as a form of resistant is canon. It's in both Powers: The Weird, and Divine Favor. Supers suggests Resistant
or Immune to Heat or Cold (Occasional) or to Thermal Stress (Common).
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Old 06-29-2020, 09:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

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Originally Posted by Raekai View Post
Hey, all!

I could've sworn that I saw something about finer levels for Resistant in response to the change in the Dungeon Fantasy RPG that made Resistant to Poison and Resistant to Disease each worth 1 point/level. And I could've sworn that whether Immunity was essentially Resistant 10 or Resistant 15 was part of that too, or maybe I saw that in a supplement somewhere.

Either way, how would you handle it? Having Resistant to Poison and Resistant to Disease points to Immunity being either Resistant 10 or Resistant 15 since, in the Basic Set, Immunity to Poison is 15 points while Immunity to Disease is 10 points. Of course, neither perfectly fits either way as Resistant isn't set up to follow a linear pattern.

Maybe it makes more sense to look at the established rarities. How many points per +1 to HT rolls is rare, occasional, common, and very common worth? Or do you think that this is a bad idea, and that Resistant should have a non-linear cost?

Thanks!
Pyramid #3/97: Strange Powers, p. 18.
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:28 PM   #8
Raekai
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

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Originally Posted by NineDaysDead View Post
High Pain Threshold as a form of resistant is canon. It's in both Powers: The Weird, and Divine Favor. Supers suggests Resistant or Immune to Heat or Cold (Occasional) or to Thermal Stress (Common).
I'd seen that about High Pain Threshold but not the temperature-related stuff for Supers. Good call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Pyramid #3/97: Strange Powers, p. 18.
I'm not surprised at all that you've written something relevant! And, wow, that Alternate Resistant Bonus Table is weird. As written, I knew pricing for Resistant like that wouldn't come out as linear, which is still weird because isn't Resistant really just a specialized HT bonus (like Hard to Kill/Subdue)? That just shows me how weird Resistant is.

It seems like the costs between Resistant (+3) and Immunity could almost be linear after factoring in a buy-in cost (like an Unusual Background). Very common seems like it could be points = 1.67 bonus + 5. A better fit would be points = 1.33 bonus + 6, which would make Immunity seem like it's worth +18.

Now that I think about it, I figure that the non-linear cost might be a weird holdover from 3e; so, I figure a linear cost of 2 points/level seems fine for a very common Resistant after all. The only thing is that it makes that +1 level very cheap compared to what it 'should be'.
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: Finer levels for Resistant? Is Immunity effectively +10 or +15?

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Originally Posted by Raekai View Post
I'm not surprised at all that you've written something relevant! And, wow, that Alternate Resistant Bonus Table is weird. As written, I knew pricing for Resistant like that wouldn't come out as linear, which is still weird because isn't Resistant really just a specialized HT bonus (like Hard to Kill/Subdue)? That just shows me how weird Resistant is.

It seems like the costs between Resistant (+3) and Immunity could almost be linear after factoring in a buy-in cost (like an Unusual Background). Very common seems like it could be points = 1.67 bonus + 5. A better fit would be points = 1.33 bonus + 6, which would make Immunity seem like it's worth +18.

Now that I think about it, I figure that the non-linear cost might be a weird holdover from 3e; so, I figure a linear cost of 2 points/level seems fine for a very common Resistant after all. The only thing is that it makes that +1 level very cheap compared to what it 'should be'.
Note, I didn't come up with that - Eric B. Smith did. I just asked to use it in my work because as you so correctly point out sometimes you want an odd bonus to resist other than +3 or +8. He just followed the pattern that was laid down for the base trait. You could change it, but I wouldn't.
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