Ten Thousandth Lilim Question

[JCD]

A demon and a Lilim have a business arrangement (he owes her a Song and is teaching it)

At one point, said Lilim has an enemy of the demon call a geas on her to set him up. She does so.

He wins anyway and goes back and CONTINUES the relationship unchanged, except for being more wary, and less predictable. He understands the necessities geases put on Lilim.

If it was heard in the Guildhall, would he be seen more as a sucker or a guy that the Lilim could work with?

[Archangel Beth]

Probably depends on the Lilim hearing it; Lilim are selfish and many of them are going to see "sucker" in anything that isn't beating Lilim to a little pulp at the slightest provocation. In my personal take, there would be more Lilim who would think of this demon as intelligent, pragmatic, and the sort of person you'd like to deal with. I.e., respect.

[JCD]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

Probably depends on the Lilim hearing it; Lilim are selfish and many of them are going to see "sucker" in anything that isn't beating Lilim to a little pulp at the slightest provocation. In my personal take, there would be more Lilim who would think of this demon as intelligent, pragmatic, and the sort of person you'd like to deal with. I.e., respect.

Okay. Let's refine that a little.

Say the guy, getting out of his trouble, approaches the Lilim and says "I have this incredible Need to vessel kill you. I don't suppose you want to make a trade?" thereby hooking an (offered) geas for putting aside his desire. This assumes he also treats her the same afterward.

More respect? Less? Irrelevant?

[Archangel Beth]

I'd think that'd get less in the way of respect, with that approach. Remember that the Free, at least, often wind up in Limbo if vessel-killed. It's got the advantage that no one can draw silly faces on you while you're in Trauma, but it's a kind of icky place to be.

Not to mention that a Lilim who feels sufficiently annoyed at what amounts to extortion might look for that specific Need (see the IPG), and if it was big enough, do the "Well, yeah, you Need it, big boy. So go ahead. We'll discuss what you'll owe me after I wake up from Trauma" routine.

However, someone who took the whole thing well and didn't pitch a fit about it (I mean, we're assuming the Lilim was professional about the whole thing and didn't really want to double-cross the poor fellow) could probably wrangle the respect into an unofficial favor without it descending into anything so petty as extortion. ("Yeah, I know it was just business. It really stings, though. Don't suppose you could...")

[JCD]

Originally Posted by Archangel Beth

I'd think that'd get less in the way of respect, with that approach. Remember that the Free, at least, often wind up in Limbo if vessel-killed. It's got the advantage that no one can draw silly faces on you while you're in Trauma, but it's a kind of icky place to be.

Not to mention that a Lilim who feels sufficiently annoyed at what amounts to extortion might look for that specific Need (see the IPG), and if it was big enough, do the "Well, yeah, you Need it, big boy. So go ahead. We'll discuss what you'll owe me after I wake up from Trauma" routine.

However, someone who took the whole thing well and didn't pitch a fit about it (I mean, we're assuming the Lilim was professional about the whole thing and didn't really want to double-cross the poor fellow) could probably wrangle the respect into an unofficial favor without it descending into anything so petty as extortion. ("Yeah, I know it was just business. It really stings, though. Don't suppose you could...")

OUCH! I'm glad he didn't go that route.

I am surprised that Lilith allows so many Free out on Earth without Hearts, though.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by JCD

I am surprised that Lilith allows so many Free out on Earth without Hearts, though.

Why wouldn't she? No skin off her nose either way. For that matter, how would she stop them? It's not like she has any standing control over them.

[JCD]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Why wouldn't she? No skin off her nose either way. For that matter, how would she stop them? It's not like she has any standing control over them.

I think Azzy would pitch enough of a fit that it might be in her interest to raise the prices at her Tethers high enough to make it...inconvienient.

For a first timer, you can't get to Earth without a tether or a Superior sending you there. Which is probably why they are so chary at breaking the seal for the first time.

[JCD]

Just out of curiosity, I was wondering what level geas that would be. I was thinking 5, but I might be inflating it.

[ladyarcana55]

if the Superior is dealing with a newbie, why wouldn't they inflate it?

[Archangel Beth]

Originally Posted by JCD

I am surprised that Lilith allows so many Free out on Earth without Hearts, though.

Well, Hearts are a form of binding -- Superiors make them and generally don't hand them out to non-Servitors. (Is it just personal canon that Hearts contain dissonance conditions, or did that make it into the GMG?)

Free Lilim like False Hearts, but those are pretty expensive as well.

Besides, Lilith can do a check of the Geases she's owed; if a Lilim has negotiated for Limbo Insurance, there are ways to discover she needs it.

Why should she make life easier for Azzie, anyway? O;>