Bright Lilim Specifics?

darksabrz · 05-19-2011, 07:18 PM

New to the forums, and perhaps a lame (in certain respects) question, but they do say the only stupid question is the one unasked, so I'll hope I'm not coming off as too ignorant. :)

I only have the core rules (from way back), as well as the Angelic and Infernal Player's Guides -- sadly, I have none of the other books, much as I would like to have them (and if I had the $8 to spare, I'd gladly buy the Lilith supplement to give myself better insight on both her and the Lilim in general). Worse, though, I can't find much of anything concerning Bright Lilim aside from the "Redemption and Lilim" information in the Infernal Player's Guide.

Anyway, that leaves me with having to ask about the basics, mostly in regards to the resonance mechanics and dissonance issues of Bright Lilim. Are they still nominally the same as the typical Lilim Band resonance and dissonance, or what differences are there between the Band resonance/dissonance and the Bright version? And is there anything else about Bright Lilim that I'm missing aside from the resonance/dissonance that I could be enlightened upon that the Infernal Player's Guide neglects to mention?

JCD · 05-19-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darksabrz

New to the forums, and perhaps a lame (in certain respects) question, but they do say the only stupid question is the one unasked, so I'll hope I'm not coming off as too ignorant. :)

I only have the core rules (from way back), as well as the Angelic and Infernal Player's Guides -- sadly, I have none of the other books, much as I would like to have them (and if I had the $8 to spare, I'd gladly buy the Lilith supplement to give myself better insight on both her and the Lilim in general). Worse, though, I can't find much of anything concerning Bright Lilim aside from the "Redemption and Lilim" information in the Infernal Player's Guide.

Anyway, that leaves me with having to ask about the basics, mostly in regards to the resonance mechanics and dissonance issues of Bright Lilim. Are they still nominally the same as the typical Lilim Band resonance and dissonance, or what differences are there between the Band resonance/dissonance and the Bright version? And is there anything else about Bright Lilim that I'm missing aside from the resonance/dissonance that I could be enlightened upon that the Infernal Player's Guide neglects to mention?

*Laughs Hysterically*

Sorry, had to get that out.

IIRC, you need Infernal Player's Guide, Core Book, Fall of the Malakim (?), The Final Trumpet, Superiors One, Superiors Three and Lilith to even START to have a clue about Brights.

Yes. It really and truly is spread out that much.

Every Superior after FoT has a little blurb about how Brights work. Superiors 1 and 3 and Lilith are must buys if you want to do Brights.

Rocket Man · 05-19-2011, 08:56 PM

If I recall correctly, most of the essential stuff is in Lilith (top priority) and then Fall of the Malakim, the latter of which includes the basic "Superior attunements" for the Brights.

Acolyte · 05-19-2011, 09:01 PM

Well, I have to disagree with JCD. You can do them however you want (and being Lilim, they probably won't mind! *rimshot*), because you're GMing. Don't know the right Attunements? Make some up. Confused about the resonance mechanics? Make your own houserules.

Mind you, the resources quoted above might be useful references, but nothing prevents you from "running with it" on your own, as long as fun takes the center stage. That said, all of those products also have other great fun things in them, so if you've got piles of cash lying around, they're good buys. But you should never feel restricted in your gameworld by the supplements you have.

And no, it's not a dumb question. Bright Lilim are somewhat of a mystery both to characters in the In Nomine setting and to the players and gamemasters of the game itself.

Rocket Man · 05-19-2011, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acolyte

Well, I have to disagree with JCD. You can do them however you want (and being Lilim, they probably won't mind! *rimshot*), because you're GMing. Don't know the right Attunements? Make some up. Confused about the resonance mechanics? Make your own houserules.

Mind you, the resources quoted above might be useful references, but nothing prevents you from "running with it" on your own, as long as fun takes the center stage. That said, all of those products also have other great fun things in them, so if you've got piles of cash lying around, they're good buys. But you should never feel restricted in your gameworld by the supplements you have.

And no, it's not a dumb question. Bright Lilim are somewhat of a mystery both to characters in the In Nomine setting and to the players and gamemasters of the game itself.

I'll second this. In most game universes, Brights are pretty rare, so Heaven itself may still be figuring out exactly how they "work" -- why should the players be an exception? :)

One basic thing you've probably already caught though ... their Geas ability works just as it did when they were demonic, except:

1) Now it can work in more remote situations (such as a phone call)

2) It's being turned toward more positive ends.

JCD · 05-20-2011, 02:34 AM

Shrug @ Acolyte. He asked for book references. And I've posted in other places when it was asked about Christopher Brights: Yes. They are rare and many of the minor Superiors don't have a valid Bright attunement. The major ones? Probably but they might have made that attunment up for the grand total of ONE that they gotten since 25,000 B.C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

2) It's being turned toward more positive ends.

That's mostly an attitude thing, not a mechanical one.

But it's true: A Bright can talk on the phone, video conference, read a letter, or even look at a past picture and get a Need. Of course, when you are talking historical records, you get the Need you had when your picture was taken. Not necessarily what it is now...

Dark Lilim need to see the wet eyeball to get a Need (though I'd accept video conferencing with the mods)

darksabrz · 05-20-2011, 07:53 AM

Hmm... okay.

Yeah, definitely more than I suspected. The attunements, at least, I'd seen on the INC. Is the basic resonance/dissonance the same as what was written in the "Honor-Bound, Geas-Bound" fiction in the INC, though? Making deals to the betterment of all, and not forcing an honorable course of action in the making of said deal?

William · 05-20-2011, 10:27 AM

Hey, I'm the author of that. Glad you liked it.

That's my interpretation of how a Malakite would see the Bright Lilim resonance, when he understood it well enough to gain Yves' Master of Divine Knowledge Distinction -- he would see it through the prism of honor. It's entirely fan-written.

The Bright resonance and Dissonance are the same, mechanically, as the demonic version. Brights, like other angels, can Need-read through recordings, where demons need live media.

What you might interpret is that the reason for the Resonance and Dissonance are different: that a Gifter reads Needs out of a desire to fill them, and gains Dissonance out of "charging too much," or "being greedy," or something similar to that.

(Also, as long as you have the list of Word Attunements handy, I'd say the Lilith pdf covers almost anything else you might need. We chose to add Bright material during playtest for exactly that reason.)

darksabrz · 05-25-2011, 10:47 AM

While I have this topic up, I admit to having some curiosity about something Bright-oriented.

I've been pondering a Lilim NPC (leaning towards being Bound, though I do like the prospect of potentially being a Free -- regardless, she would still be serving the same Superior) originally in service to Fate, though has had enough "bad luck" (or maybe good luck, to certain Angels) with dissonance and Discord as a result of Divine Interventions on resonance rolls to where she could be redeemed. Obviously, this would mean that most likely she would wind up serving Yves (Destiny being the mirror of Fate).

Now, having read William's fic about a Malakim getting the Bright Lilim attunement through the Master of Divine Knowledge attunement, there's a part of me that wonders what would happen if it went the other way: would gaining the resonance of a Malakim be a good fit for a Bright Lilim in such a situation (aside from the general belief that Malakim can never Fall)?

And, aside from the Mercurian resonance, what other resonance via Master of Divine Knowledge would be a potential good fit?

William · 05-25-2011, 03:34 PM

Master of Divine Knowledge is a long, long character time away from Redeeming, of course.

(By the way, the singular refers to a Malakite. The plural is a group of Malakim.)

Almost any MoDK resonance would be suitable for some character; it's very dependent on personality. Since Malakim are often set against Lilim, the Malakite resonance would in that sense be "natural."

Do note that getting the Malakite Resonance through MoDK does not include the inability to Fall.

05-19-2011, 07:18 PM	#1
darksabrz Join Date: May 2011	Bright Lilim Specifics? New to the forums, and perhaps a lame (in certain respects) question, but they do say the only stupid question is the one unasked, so I'll hope I'm not coming off as too ignorant. :) I only have the core rules (from way back), as well as the Angelic and Infernal Player's Guides -- sadly, I have none of the other books, much as I would like to have them (and if I had the $8 to spare, I'd gladly buy the Lilith supplement to give myself better insight on both her and the Lilim in general). Worse, though, I can't find much of anything concerning Bright Lilim aside from the "Redemption and Lilim" information in the Infernal Player's Guide. Anyway, that leaves me with having to ask about the basics, mostly in regards to the resonance mechanics and dissonance issues of Bright Lilim. Are they still nominally the same as the typical Lilim Band resonance and dissonance, or what differences are there between the Band resonance/dissonance and the Bright version? And is there anything else about Bright Lilim that I'm missing aside from the resonance/dissonance that I could be enlightened upon that the Infernal Player's Guide neglects to mention?

05-19-2011, 08:56 PM	#3
Rocket Man Petitioner: Word of IN Filk Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Longmont, CO	Re: Bright Lilim Specifics? If I recall correctly, most of the essential stuff is in Lilith (top priority) and then Fall of the Malakim, the latter of which includes the basic "Superior attunements" for the Brights. __________________ “It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"

05-19-2011, 09:01 PM	#4
Acolyte Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Seattle	Re: Bright Lilim Specifics? Well, I have to disagree with JCD. You can do them however you want (and being Lilim, they probably won't mind! rimshot), because you're GMing. Don't know the right Attunements? Make some up. Confused about the resonance mechanics? Make your own houserules. Mind you, the resources quoted above might be useful references, but nothing prevents you from "running with it" on your own, as long as fun takes the center stage. That said, all of those products also have other great fun things in them, so if you've got piles of cash lying around, they're good buys. But you should never feel restricted in your gameworld by the supplements you have. And no, it's not a dumb question. Bright Lilim are somewhat of a mystery both to characters in the In Nomine setting and to the players and gamemasters of the game itself. __________________ “The world is going to Hell in a hand-basket, but I’ve got Good News: I saved my soul by switching to Heaven.” —Baruel, former Djinn of the Media, now Cherub of Destiny and the Angel of Good News

05-20-2011, 07:53 AM	#7
darksabrz Join Date: May 2011	Re: Bright Lilim Specifics? Hmm... okay. Yeah, definitely more than I suspected. The attunements, at least, I'd seen on the INC. Is the basic resonance/dissonance the same as what was written in the "Honor-Bound, Geas-Bound" fiction in the INC, though? Making deals to the betterment of all, and not forcing an honorable course of action in the making of said deal?

05-20-2011, 10:27 AM	#8
William Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan	Re: Bright Lilim Specifics? Hey, I'm the author of that. Glad you liked it. That's my interpretation of how a Malakite would see the Bright Lilim resonance, when he understood it well enough to gain Yves' Master of Divine Knowledge Distinction -- he would see it through the prism of honor. It's entirely fan-written. The Bright resonance and Dissonance are the same, mechanically, as the demonic version. Brights, like other angels, can Need-read through recordings, where demons need live media. What you might interpret is that the reason for the Resonance and Dissonance are different: that a Gifter reads Needs out of a desire to fill them, and gains Dissonance out of "charging too much," or "being greedy," or something similar to that. (Also, as long as you have the list of Word Attunements handy, I'd say the Lilith pdf covers almost anything else you might need. We chose to add Bright material during playtest for exactly that reason.)

05-25-2011, 10:47 AM	#9
darksabrz Join Date: May 2011	Re: Bright Lilim Specifics? While I have this topic up, I admit to having some curiosity about something Bright-oriented. I've been pondering a Lilim NPC (leaning towards being Bound, though I do like the prospect of potentially being a Free -- regardless, she would still be serving the same Superior) originally in service to Fate, though has had enough "bad luck" (or maybe good luck, to certain Angels) with dissonance and Discord as a result of Divine Interventions on resonance rolls to where she could be redeemed. Obviously, this would mean that most likely she would wind up serving Yves (Destiny being the mirror of Fate). Now, having read William's fic about a Malakim getting the Bright Lilim attunement through the Master of Divine Knowledge attunement, there's a part of me that wonders what would happen if it went the other way: would gaining the resonance of a Malakim be a good fit for a Bright Lilim in such a situation (aside from the general belief that Malakim can never Fall)? And, aside from the Mercurian resonance, what other resonance via Master of Divine Knowledge would be a potential good fit?

05-25-2011, 03:34 PM	#10
William Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan	Re: Bright Lilim Specifics? Master of Divine Knowledge is a long, long character time away from Redeeming, of course. (By the way, the singular refers to a Malakite. The plural is a group of Malakim.) Almost any MoDK resonance would be suitable for some character; it's very dependent on personality. Since Malakim are often set against Lilim, the Malakite resonance would in that sense be "natural." Do note that getting the Malakite Resonance through MoDK does not include the inability to Fall.