Free Lilim & Hearts

[alangriffith]

Originally Posted by Alejandro

It seems Asmodeous has been spending a little too much time with Fleurity. I cannot imagine that anyone with such a finely honed sense of betrayal saying something like the first, being painfully aware of the second.

Erm... tough? The first is in an official book (referenced etc.) and the second is a relatively direct summary (not interpretation, summary) of what you can find yourself in the infernal players guide ( an official book) under the 'Redemption' chapter. I'm getting tired of beating a dead horse here. Can I assume you accept that officially Free Lilim have no hearts, and it is not a sudden rules change, either directly or by errata-based stealth? Thus dealing with your initial query (when the rules changed - they didn't, and the geas price for a heart - priceless due to illegality) and meaning all the rest is a side-argument on whether heartless free lilim are a good idea?

Since Lilith can track all free Lilim everywhere by simply using the song of attraction on the geas she never calls in, she doesn't need hearts to track her daughters. Asmodeus would like to be able to track all Free Lilim everywhere much the same way he'd like to be able to track all Kobalites everywhere (the main book itself states that most demon princes seek out renegades themselves rather than informing Asmodeus, so The Game can't even track all renegades with unbroken hearts). This doesn't mean the Demon Princes will hand all their servitor hearts to Asmodeus, and it likewise doesn't mean Lilith will allow Asmodeus to craft hearts for all her Free daughters. If he attempts to force such a ruling, he'll face immense opposition. If he simply he makes a 'generous' offer of hearts to the free lilim, which will allow him to track their every movement and meaning they appear in his much-feared Halls when they descend, I suspect the take-up will be quite low.

If you don't like or agree with this reasoning, by all means houserule the Asmodean Heart Decree into your game. What I don't understand is what exactly you are trying to acheive by continually arguing that heartless Free Lilim make no sense? Is it a rules change by Archangel Beth? A popular revolt among board users, who adopt your house rule in such numbers that it hearted free lilim become canon? The last word on this thread? I've seen one person who agrees with you so far, and a lot more who don't. I suspect the setting will stay as it is.

There are counterpoints to the points you raised since I last posted, but I have better things to do than continue to argue with you. That Free Lilim do not have hearts in the canon setting (nor did before the errata) is a fact, which I have proven to my satisfaction. That this is a reasonable and balanced state of affairs is an opinion, which I share and you don't. I've argued here long enough to be pretty sure nothing I say can change your opinion on this, and that nothing you have said convinces me that mine is wrong. I think I'll bow out now and not waste any more time here.