Can non-mages use magic item to cast spells in normal mana area

[Your first mate]

So this doesn't seem clear to me, in the books it says that wands and staffs give you the power to cast the spells enchanted in them without knowing them but you are under all other normal limitations for the spell so does that mean that non-mages will have to follow the limitations of not being able to cast spells in normal mana area?
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[Plane]

Originally Posted by Your first mate

says that wands and staffs give you the power to cast the spells enchanted in them without knowing them
but you are under all other normal limitations for the spell
so does that mean that non-mages will have to follow the limitations of not being able to cast spells in normal mana area?

M19 opens with "follow the rules for the spell(s) they contain" but despite that does list exceptions:

1) no ritual (ie words, hands, feet)
2) power doesn't reduce casting time (separate enchantment)
3) power doesn't reduce energy cost (separate enchantment)
4) "Use the item’s Power as the caster’s base skill"

The end "All other effects are as usual for that spell" does sort of lend the impression that perhaps this stuff only works for non-mages in high power, unless I'm missing something.

Would be interesting how this would apply to "Always On" items since they operate differently:

"These items don’t let the wearer cast the spell – they automatically cast the spell on the wearer"
"The item does not let the wearer cast the spell – it puts the spell on him, at no cost, as soon as he wears or wields the item"
"All other effects are as usual for that spell"

So the question is: do always-on items only work (even for Mages, since they aren't casting the spell it doesn't matter) in High/VH Mana since items are not mages and can't cast spells in Normal/Low Mana?

If the answer is yes then you could do some workarounds I think

1) M64 cast "Weapon Spirit" to transfer the spirit of a recently-slain Mage into your weapon to give your wand magery. If other mages are hard to find, use M160 to create a Wraith amulet and give it to your pet rat, then kill the rat and put the rat's spirit into the weapon

2) alternatively, maybe put a Wraith Ring on your wand and turn your wand into a wraith. Since one can define weapons as characters (Thaumatology "can be wielded") they should be able to wear jewelry, right?

3) make up a custom spell (M14/15) to impart Magery 0 to targets (including your wand) one point of energy per 3cp should only cost 2 points, possibly one if you make it Magery 0 with -40% in limitations. Cost to maintain is half although I'm not sure how long the duration periods are.

If the answer is no (enchanted items count as having magery 0 and effectively impart one-spell magery 0 to their users in respect to spells they give the ability to cast) then I'd probably just want to make a note of wherever a book/FAQ clarifies this.

One possible workaround: if we use the optional non-mages casting in low mana rules (-6 to skill, Thaumatology) then this shouldn't be a problem: you could either apply the -6 to the Power, or else just ignore the -6 since it's Power and not Skill.

"Least of Spells" magic items should also work in normal mana since IQ/A spells are usable by non-mages in normal, and ignore the -5 to skill for Mages in Low Mana. Not sure if they would ignore the -5 to Power for Mages using in Low Mana though.

[finn]

Yes, non-mages can cast spells by using magic items unless its description says they can only be used my mages. That is the intention of the third and fourth sentense of page 19 of Magic. "Some are only usable by Mages" here means "many can be used by non-mages".

*** text added below ***
It is safe to interprate that the text applies to "normal" mana. If not, it would have mentioned so.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by finn

Yes, non-mages can cast spells by using magic items unless its description says they can only be used my mages. That is the intention of the third and fourth sentense of page 19 of Magic. "Some are only usable by Mages" here means "many can be used by non-mages".

The question isn't whether or not non-mages can use them, just WHERE they can use them.

[finn]

Originally Posted by Plane

The question isn't whether or not non-mages can use them, just WHERE they can use them.

That is the question I was addressing, but I did add some text to clarify.

[David Johansen]

I'm not looking at the book, but my recollection is that a spell's "power" is the skill at which it was cast and an enchantment requires a power of at least 15. So, if the mana level reduces the "power" to less than 15 the item wouldn't work. Or, in other words, you'd need a skill of 20 to make an item that works in low mana areas.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by David Johansen

I'm not looking at the book, but my recollection is that a spell's "power" is the skill at which it was cast and an enchantment requires a power of at least 15. So, if the mana level reduces the "power" to less than 15 the item wouldn't work. Or, in other words, you'd need a skill of 20 to make an item that works in low mana areas.

That is correct. The one thing that never really made sense (and magic does have "laws" so none of that lazy "it's magic" tap dance) is how you could have Always On items with spells that cost energy and yet if you had the exact same spell as castable from an item it suddenly cost energy to use.

It was and still is an inconstancy that annoys me no end. It seems to exist only to allow look at the table of spells and use that energy cost rather than remember to subtract 1 as they item is as skill 15 minimum.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by maximara

The one thing that never really made sense (and magic does have "laws" so none of that lazy "it's magic" tap dance) is how you could have Always On items with spells that cost energy and yet if you had the exact same spell as castable from an item it suddenly cost energy to use.

To be fair, there is added utility to being able to cast a spell rather than have it always on. In addition to being a bit more controllable (unless those Always On versions are switchable), you can share whatever buff it grants with the party. Imagine if Bilbo could have used the Ring to turn himself as well as all the dwarves invisible, instead of it just making him vanish when he put it on.

If you're looking for more of a narrativist explanation (the above is purely gamist - "more utility = more cost"), perhaps it has to do with control of variables. The person enchanting the item has a lot of control over it, so can reduce the cost (to nothing) to have it always on fire, or always making invisible whatever it is placed upon, or whatever. Something that instead grants a spell to whoever wields it has a lot more variables that can come into play, so the creator can't reduce the cost.

[Your first mate]

It seems my question was answered with that yes non-mages can use magic item to cast spells in normal mana area.
Thank you guys for answering and sorry for not replying sooner this question was eating away at me for so long.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Varyon

To be fair, there is added utility to being able to cast a spell rather than have it always on. In addition to being a bit more controllable (unless those Always On versions are switchable), you can share whatever buff it grants with the party. Imagine if Bilbo could have used the Ring to turn himself as well as all the dwarves invisible, instead of it just making him vanish when he put it on.

This is a flawed counterargument as Invisibility items that cast the spell "only affects the wearer." Also unlike the Ring such items cost energy to use so the Ring either has Power 5 put into it on top of the Invisibility enchantment or the maker had insane skill.

Originally Posted by Varyon

If you're looking for more of a narrativist explanation (the above is purely gamist - "more utility = more cost"), perhaps it has to do with control of variables. The person enchanting the item has a lot of control over it, so can reduce the cost (to nothing) to have it always on fire, or always making invisible whatever it is placed upon, or whatever. Something that instead grants a spell to whoever wields it has a lot more variables that can come into play, so the creator can't reduce the cost.

Interestingly very few Magic items have Always On and most that cast the spell on the wearer require energy.