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Old 05-04-2021, 04:10 AM   #1
xavilongo
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Default Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

Hello,

Just starting a Convoy adventure. I have filled the vehicle planning sheets for the Sleeper cab-over and the Trailer, but the total numbers for cost and weight do not match with the ones stated in the rules ("your truck" section).

Sleeper cab-over:
cost: 108.476$ vs 103.812$
weight: 14.515 lbs vs. 14.847 lbs

Trailer:
cost: 79.300$ vs. 80.150$
weight: 16.415 lbs, this is ok.

I wonder what I have missed...any help? Thanks in advance!

Last edited by xavilongo; 05-04-2021 at 04:50 AM. Reason: corrected numbers
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:12 AM   #2
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

The truck design rules have almost certainly changed between the publishing of Convoy and the rules set you are using. Check the DPs of the tires for a start. Truck solids got a whopping upgrade in later versions.

Actually this is likely true of all the vehicle design rules.

If you update some of the vehicles to more modern rules you need to do it for all of them to retain balance. This is hard as you will have to make decisions on what equipment to lose to fit in the weight limit (or what is no longer legal) or what to do with the extra weight left over. In either decision you risk unbalancing the game as not just the design rules changed (for example grenades used to damage tires in their 2" burst effect).

Personally I'd just to use all vehicles as given - and assume that they are broadly compatible with one another.

Of course updating all the vehicles is quite a fun solo exercise in itself.

You could run the scenario as it stands as the old trucker boasts at the truck stop and re-run it with updated vehicles as you try to emulate their success (or manage their failure). For a fair comparison use the same paragraph choices, for more fun always use a different choice if you can.

There I just doubled the play value ;)
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:36 PM   #3
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by xavilongo View Post
Hello,

Just starting a Convoy adventure. I have filled the vehicle planning sheets for the Sleeper cab-over and the Trailer, but the total numbers for cost and weight do not match with the ones stated in the rules ("your truck" section).
I'll shoot you a copy of my file on that; I don't remember exactly what the numbers ran out to.
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:20 AM   #4
xavilongo
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
The truck design rules have almost certainly changed between the publishing of Convoy and the rules set you are using. Check the DPs of the tires for a start. Truck solids got a whopping upgrade in later versions.
Yes, I noticed that the DP of the solid tires for trucks had been augmented from 18 to 24, even if this does not affect the cost or weight.

Besides the Convoy module, I have the Compendium last edition rules and also the Truck Stop module. The cost and weight is the same for Body size, Chassis strength, Power Plant, Tires, Wheelguards, Quick-release kingpin, and Armor cost.

AP grenades are fixed at 50$ each with negligible weight.

So, the only items that could differ from the car wars pocket box edition are:

SS
SD
OJ
Links
RL
MG
HR computers
LR radio
3-space turret
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:21 AM   #5
xavilongo
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
I'll shoot you a copy of my file on that; I don't remember exactly what the numbers ran out to.
Wow, this would be fantastic! Thanks in advance!
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Old 05-06-2021, 02:43 AM   #6
xavilongo
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
I'll shoot you a copy of my file on that; I don't remember exactly what the numbers ran out to.
Hello, file received, thank you!. I have tried to answer your email you but the system says I do not have enough privileges, so I post my comments here:

Cab-over:

-It should have one driver and two gunners, so three people, not two
-It lacks the third HR computer
-Armor points are 234, not 240 (Wheelguards armor should be counted apart, the same way you have done with the trailer)
-Wheelguard cost is 1200, not 600 (they are FP, so double cost)
-The turret: I suppose it should be a three space turret to gain an extra space, otherwise the design lacks one space (remember that the extra gunner needs two extra spaces)

Trailer:

-It should have 22 AP grenades, not 14
-The armor is FP, so cost is double (40.000, not counting Wheelguards)
-Wheelguard cost is 1200

Perhaps you have access to some errata published about the Convoy published data? In case the Cab-over has only two HR computers, this would be 4.000$ less, much close to the original data.
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Old 05-06-2021, 08:51 AM   #7
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

I also can't find anything specific to trucks causing the issue.

It may be the usual issue where people using pencils and paper back in the day made a maths error.

Last edited by swordtart; 05-06-2021 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:21 PM   #8
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

I suspect the discrepancies you see in 43's design are an attempt to make the design legal.

It is fundamentally broken. Taking the large plant (13 spcs), 3 crew (2 spc each) and 4 x MGs (1 spcs) alone it uses up 23 of the 24 spaces in a cabover design. Any turret take sup 2 spaces so it is already illegal.

My simple fix was a one word change to the design and change the cabover to long nose (which would then also make it match the drawing). This allows a 2 space turret for the RL (with the mag going into the body space). It is around 100lb more than the description (140lb over if you use the modern legal 5lb per flechette discharger) but well within the chassis capacity and a shade more than 10K over price. On the other hand, the weight and cost are irrelevant for the scenario (since you aren't paying for it and the weight of the algae is not factored in anyway). The only clue to the overall weight of the laden vehicle is the quadruple damage on collision and that is true for a total weight of 16,001 - 20,000lb but as this doesn't match the published design (unladen it is 30k+) it is largely irrelevant.

Unfortunately this doesn't make sense as no CW vehicle wouldn't use its full load capacity and the longnose change gives you an extra space to boot.

If you stick with the cabover to preserve some hope of meeting the budget you are going to have to be creative with some of the components. you'll need a 3 space turret for the Rl and extra mag and you'll need to find another space somewhere. Maybe loose a front MG or make one of the gunners a passenger.

Alternatively given it's apparently limited load capacity, you could go for a medium truck plant instead. This would give you 3 spaces to play with making the 2 space turret an option again putting you massively under the load limit.

Even with the cab loaded to its limit with an extra 400lb or so, as long as 60 spaces of Algae weighs less than 9000lb or so, the plant will cope. 150lb per space doesn't seem unreasonable for algae (1 space of gas averages at 60lb in CW).

But with a design this out of whack you might as well redesign the whole thing. There is no magic bullet.
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:33 PM   #9
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

Hang on a minute.

Make it a sleeper longnose with a heavy chassis upgrade (rather than extra heavy). This gives you 14,850 lb capacity. All the other gear with a 2 space turret (and assume AP grenades don't weigh anything)

Total spaces 27 (for 27 capacity)
cost $103,812 (bang on !!!!!!)
weight 14,849 lbs (which is 2lb more than published but is just under - and just under indicates it is right).

I am counting that as a win.

The trailer is the correct weight but should be only $78,700 too expensive. I can't see a logical reason so I'd chalk that one up to a typo.

Last edited by swordtart; 05-06-2021 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 05-06-2021, 03:32 PM   #10
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Convoy Vehicle Planning Sheets

Correct -- my policy when making corrections is "stay as close to the original as possible".

Also, right now I'm looking at a PDF of _ADQ1/1_:

-- I see only two crew in the tractor.

-- So far as I can see, none of the armor on the semi is FP.

-- Armor is 240 pts.: Three sides at 45 pts.; one each at 40, 35, and 30; so 45 + 45 + 45 + 40 + 35 + 30 = 240.
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Last edited by 43Supporter; 05-06-2021 at 05:44 PM.
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