Does ordinary clothing provide DR?

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by Gollum

All what I wanted to say about punches is that as long as you don't make your character amazingly strong, punch damage give roughly realistic results (once the dice are rolled, here again).

What do you consider to be amazingly strong? Google says the fastest punch ever was 19 m/s. I don't know what the mass is there, but we're probably looking at something between 150 and 250 Joules. So a GURPS damage of 5 or 6. In GURPS, a ST 10 man with Karate at DX+1 doing an AoA (Strong) does 5 damage two-thirds of the time. If you increase him to ST 14, then he's doing 1d+4 damage. He always does 5 damage. He usually does 7.5 damage, and he does 9 damage as often as he does 5.

Something is seriously wrong here.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Gollum

The problem is that with 1d cut damage the tiger wouldn't do much damage than an average ST 10 guy with a shortsword. Take that guy with a shortsword, and make him fight a tiger... No. I'm kidding. Don't. Ever. The guy would have the least chance. Tigers fight bears and sometimes even elephants. They strike very, very strongly.

Well, do keep in mind if you're toning down ST based damage for tigers, we'll be doing the same for humans. Aping Douglas Cole's revamped ST-based damage and using the Realistic line (and then applying my own handling of weapon damage adds), an ST 17 tiger would have a thrust of 0.85d (either 1d-1 or 1d, depending on how you round), while an ST 10 human would have a thrust of 0.5d. Now, he'd have a swing of 1d, but that's the advantage of leverage. That doesn't really strike me as terribly unrealistic, as in an actual fight between the two the tiger's much higher Basic Speed will give it a pretty solid chance of dodging his attacks, and in a face-off the slowness of his swings is not unlikely to result in the tiger striking first and downing him. Even if the tiger fails to strike first, a hit from the human is less likely to down/kill the tiger as a strike from the tiger is to down/kill him, and the tiger is going to get into close combat and grapple him, where that fancy sword isn't going to do much good.

Of course, humans didn't fight tigers by swinging shortswords. Spears are far better, as you don't have as much of a speed mismatch, you can strike the tiger from further away (and even use its speed against it, as a Stop Thrust).

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Restricting ST to no higher than 13 is just another way to house rule it, and produces some other weird problems. The RAW doesn't restrict ST at all (not even to 20!).

I don't restrict strength to 13. I limit it to 14 for realistic campaigns, which is not a house rule, but what GURPS rules explicitly say: "15 or more: Amazing". Once you introduce amazing scores in your campaigns, you inevitably end in amazing results. Especially with basic attributes which cover as many different human abilities as GURPS ST, GURPS DX, GURPS IQ or GURPS HT. In reality, the best champion weightlifter isn't able to punch as strongly and to stand as many blows than Mohamed Ali and Mohamed Ali is probably not able to lift half what the best champion weightlifter can lift. They just don't have the same muscle structure!

Brief, I just take into account the fact that GURPS is not only designed for realistic heroes and campaigns, but also for characters like Conan the Barbarian which is also a "human" in GURPS terms. And the only way to avoid that "realistic" characters suddenly become larger than life movie heroes is to limit their basic attributes and to give them advantages and skills which best fit to what they are exactly supposed to do.

In my humble opinion, this is a better manner of handling things than giving character the strength of a tiger or even a grizzly bear and complaining that it doesn't give realistic in play.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'd say "Give me a spear, and I'll fight your tiger (for a reasonable sum of money)" but I wouldn't, not because I'm afraid of the tiger but because I'm not going to kill an endangered animal.

And I would answer: it's very easy to say it... It's another thing to do it. Just look at that before trying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4t0aeTX954

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gollum

And I would answer: it's very easy to say it... It's another thing to do it. Just look at that before trying.

I'd happily hunt pigs as heavy with a spear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4t0aeTX954

Flimsy bamboo whips does not a spear make.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

What do you consider to be amazingly strong? Google says the fastest punch ever was 19 m/s. I don't know what the mass is there, but we're probably looking at something between 150 and 250 Joules. So a GURPS damage of 5 or 6.

Can you give me the reference which say that GURPS damage of 5 or 6 correspond to 150-250 joules please?

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'd happily hunt pigs as heavy with a spear.
Flimsy bamboo whips does not a spear make.

You are kidding, aren't you? Do pigs strike back as strongly as tigers?

[ErhnamDJ]

Originally Posted by Gollum

Can you give me the reference which say that GURPS damage of 5 or 6 correspond to 150-250 joules please?

I can for arrows and bullets. I haven't looked at the slam formula in a while; maybe it's the same there. Presumably it should be the same for fists, though I imagine they have an armor divisor of some sort, and they're usually crushing rather than piercing or impaling.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Well, do keep in mind if you're toning down ST based damage for tigers, we'll be doing the same for humans.

Yes, I've got it in mind, but then, we would fall right into the other trap: how much shortsword blow to make an average guy without armor fall down?

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ

I can for arrows and bullets. I haven't looked at the slam formula in a while; maybe it's the same there. Presumably it should be the same for fists, though I imagine they have an armor divisor of some sort, and they're usually crushing rather than piercing or impaling.

Where can I find this slam formula for arrows and bullets?