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Old 11-02-2022, 07:53 AM   #211
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
The Undead question looks like the consensus is something like 'They all exist, and some are Goa'Uld, servants of Jaffa-equivalents, or the victims of horrific punishments by the Goa'Uld. The SGC probably shouldn't encounter them until they've been using the Stargate for a while, though.' Is that acceptable?
They could probably encounter some of them relatively early on, so long as them being undead isn't obvious. Some sort of revenant-type undead - basically a zombie, minus the rotting and mindlessness - would be largely indistinguishable from a normal person, outside of a pallor (possibly concealed by armor, and in any case explainable as a result of purposeful cosmetic treatment) and low body-temperature (which the characters won't have a chance to check until they've been defeated, and only if the bodies are left behind; this will certainly raise some eyebrows, but they may come up with logical explanations; you could avoid this if such undead turn to dust when destroyed, like Buffyverse vampires, with the characters simply assuming some sort of advanced self-destruction mechanism is in play). Inhuman resilience and strength may be explained away as a result of advanced combat drugs and/or a function of their armor.

But that all depends on how long you want the characters to be in the dark about the existence of actual magic. If our Teal'c-expy's innate abilities could potentially be explained with science (considering we're starting from a baseline of "having an alien snake in your belly giving you super-strength and resilience is realistic," that's not too difficult, honestly) and his Magitech equipment (like the Jaffa staff) is assumed to be Sufficiently Advanced Technology, you could potentially keep this going for a while (and it might be interesting if SGC convinces the Teal'c-expy - or if he had come to such a conclusion himself already - that there's no actual magic involved, just advanced technology, prior to them discovering that, no, it's actually magic), so you'd want any undead to at least look vaguely plausible.
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Old 11-02-2022, 08:00 AM   #212
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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But that all depends on how long you want the characters to be in the dark about the existence of actual magic. If our Teal'c-expy's innate abilities could potentially be explained with science (considering we're starting from a baseline of "having an alien snake in your belly giving you super-strength and resilience is realistic," that's not too difficult, honestly) and his Magitech equipment (like the Jaffa staff) is assumed to be Sufficiently Advanced Technology, you could potentially keep this going for a while (and it might be interesting if SGC convinces the Teal'c-expy - or if he had come to such a conclusion himself already - that there's no actual magic involved, just advanced technology, prior to them discovering that, no, it's actually magic),
"False God. Dead, False God."
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Old 11-02-2022, 08:35 AM   #213
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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"False God. Dead, False God."
Yeah, I was thinking of the fact Teal'c had already come to the conclusion the Goa'uld were not true gods long before he met SG1 (otherwise, he would not have joined them... nor would someone so easily shaken from his convictions be a reliable asset), and considered that not only would he have come to this conclusion from his interactions with them in our Stargate: Fantasy setting, but that he might have gone further and dismissed all supernatural explanations for things. It also seems like it would be a bit problematic, if SGC is meant to stay in the dark about the existence of magic for a while, if the Teal'c expy keeps insisting things have supernatural reasons behind them.

Granted, upon it being proven that magic is real, the Teal'c expy might have a moment of existential doubt - if magic is real, could not the Goa'uld truly be gods? But if he's anything like the Teal'c of Stargate: SG1, I'd imagine his conclusion would be something like "Magic is simply the means the Goa'uld use to delude and enslave us. They are not gods. And even if they somehow were, they would not be worthy of us."
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Old 11-02-2022, 09:35 AM   #214
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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The Undead question looks like the consensus is something like 'They all exist, and some are Goa'Uld, servants of Jaffa-equivalents, or the victims of horrific punishments by the Goa'Uld. The SGC probably shouldn't encounter them until they've been using the Stargate for a while, though.' Is that acceptable?
That sounds good to me.
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Old 11-02-2022, 01:47 PM   #215
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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Yes, meeting the "advanced" sort of trans-Gate being should probably wait a while.

If the Five Eyes really did/was signals intelligence NSA would be more likely than CIA.
The CIA is on the list of agencies that are involved in the Five Eyes system. (Canadian Forces Intelligence Branch isn't, but I thought might have been in the 1990s, while CFINTCOM did not exist yet in the 1990s).

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Yeah, I was thinking of the fact Teal'c had already come to the conclusion the Goa'uld were not true gods long before he met SG1
That's one possible interpretation of what he said (and probably the one the writers meant, since few Hollywood writers are aware of ancient definitions of gods as powerful but limited beings that were worshiped to appease them and bribe them for favors), but not the only one. He could have meant that they were gods who were 'false' - were treacherous liars taking advantage of their worshipers without giving them the benefits they claim. This might be how he interprets it in this timeline (which is pretty close to your conclusion of 'they are not worthy of us').

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They could probably encounter some of them relatively early on, so long as them being undead isn't obvious.
Yeah, I guess 'when do they encounter obvious undead' is an individual GMs call, so I'll modify the conclusion accordingly.
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Old 11-02-2022, 02:37 PM   #216
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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Daniel-expy: Name not certain yet.
I am a fan of calling him Bone, Jim Bone.
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Old 11-02-2022, 07:40 PM   #217
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The CIa is on the list of agencies that are involved in the Five Eyes system. y.
Yes, but did you notice that the NSA was listed as for "Signal Intelligence" while the CIA was listed for "Human Intelligence"? The CIA isn't the place to go to for technological expertise.
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Old 11-03-2022, 06:58 AM   #218
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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Yes, but did you notice that the NSA was listed as for "Signal Intelligence" while the CIA was listed for "Human Intelligence"? The CIA isn't the place to go to for technological expertise.
OK, your implication that CIA field agents would not include technical experts (hackers and what Action calls wire rats) is so utterly bizarre to me that I'm not sure we can have a conversation about it. SigInt is about intercepting signals, not planting bugs (not to say that there's no overlap). Too tired to give a better/more detailed answer, but I really think we're working from incompatible starting assumptions.
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Old 11-03-2022, 07:41 AM   #219
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

I could potentially see a scenario where, when it comes to 5-EYES joint operations, CIA only sends their spies, and NSA only sends their hackers. That doesn't strike me as likely, but I could see some bureaucratic BS in play that only allows each agency to commit certain, specific assets.

But even if that is the case IRL, it need not be for this setting - a cinematic treatment would generally ignore such issues unless they're meant to be relevant to the plot, or we could just assume that Project Stargate (or whatever they opt to call it) follows different rules.
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Old 11-03-2022, 08:03 AM   #220
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Default Re: [Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

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OK, your implication that CIA field agents would not include technical experts (hackers and what Action calls wire rats) is so utterly bizarre to me that I'm not sure we can have a conversation about it. SigInt is about intercepting signals, not planting bugs (not to say that there's no overlap). Too tired to give a better/more detailed answer, but I really think we're working from incompatible starting assumptions.
Any real equivalent to Samantha Carter would need to be more than a hacker and CIA agents are very unlikely to be Ph.Ds. NSA agents would be somewhat more likely. The NSA handles all the satellite-based intel and generally anything else highly technical.

You could find some signals people in the military intelligence branches
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