[Space/Thaumatology] Stargate: Fantasy - Worldbuilding thread

[Prince Charon]

Like most televised science fiction, a lot of the 'science' in the Stargate setting is basically magic, and thinking about that lead me to trying to imagine a fantasy version of the setting, much like Warhammer 40,000 is a Dark SF version of Warhammer Fantasy.

The Stargates become powerful magic Artifacts of the Ancients (probably still interstellar portals, but they could be interdimensional instead, or as well), with the various energy weapons and such being more common magical devices. The Ascended are basically gods or powerful spirits even in the official setting, so no real change there beyond less pretending otherwise, though the Goa'Uld or whatever replaces them should probably be demons or magical monsters pretending to be gods. The Asgard are another matter, since the Norse gods in their own mythology did have an defined end, and were capable of dying, yet were still very much considered gods. They might be the High Elf equivalent, or might be replaced. The Nox are a bit too gentle to fit the faeries or most other fantasy or mythical beings that I'm aware of, but 'powerful, pacifist fae' is an interesting idea. The Jaffa or equivalent might be all one type of modified human as in canon, or might be several varieties.

My plan for the thread is to post various worldbuilding questions and work from the results, so some of the Stargate races and items may be replaced, or dropped entirely. There are a few places I could start, but I'm going with asking about the magic system, as that will determine a lot of the other worldbuilding. The question will be posted in a little bit.


Table of Contents

Magic System Question I
Magic System Question II
Magic System Question III
Magic System Question IV
Magic System Question V

Time Period Question I
Time Period Question II
Time Period Question II, revised
Time Period Question III

Goa'Uld Question I
Goa'Uld Question II

Stargate Command Question I
Stargate Command Question II
Stargate Command Question III
Stargate Command Question IV
Stargate Command Question V
Stargate Command Question VI
Stargate Command Question VII
Stargate Command Question VIII

Undead Question I

Elves Question I

Staff-weapon Question I

Stargate Question I
Stargate Question II
Stargate Question III

Teleportation Question I

Faster Than Light Question I
Faster Than Light Question II
Faster Than Light Question III

Interdimensional Travel Question I

Little People Question I
Little People Question II

Cat People Question I

Shapeshifting Question I
Shapeshifting Question II

Giantfolk Question I
Giantfolk Question II
Giantfolk Question III

G'annan of Frolec Question I
G'annan of Frolec Question II
G'annan of Frolec Question III
G'annan of Frolec Question IV
G'annan of Frolec Question V
G'annan of Frolec Question VI
G'annan of Frolec Question VII
G'annan of Frolec Question VIII

Frolechi Question I
Frolechi Question II
Frolechi Question III
Frolechi Question IV
Frolechi Question V
Frolechi Question VI
Frolechi Question VII
Frolechi Question VIII
Frolechi Question IX
Frolechi Question X

Important Regional Cultures Question I
Important Regional Cultures Question II
Important Regional Cultures Question III
Important Regional Cultures Question IV
Important Regional Cultures Question V

Chain of Astarte Question I
Chain of Astarte Question II
Chain of Astarte Question III
Chain of Astarte Question IV
Chain of Astarte Question V

[Prince Charon]

Table of Contents, cont'd

[Prince Charon]

Table of Contents, overflow

[Prince Charon]

Magic System Question I

Which magic system or systems are used in this setting? Unless one system gets an overwhelming majority of the votes, there will probably be a main system and some less important ones, or the systems might vary by race or culture. Material Magic and Innate Magic will be present no matter which options win, but might be less important. Due to how broad these are, there will probably be a few follow-up Magic System questions, no matter which one wins. Examples and other supplementary information will be in parentheses.

1. Material Magic (Alchemy, Herb Lore, Natural Magic, Magical Engineering, and related concepts. Very fitting for this sort of setting, and probably needed to have Stargates, with naquadah being one of the most potent magical materials. Using Magical Engineering also has the advantage (if we want it) that the SGC-equivalent can believe that they're in a regular SF setting for longer.)

2. Magic as Powers (Innate Magic, Fixed Magic, Imbuements, Power Stunts as Spells, Sorcery, et cetra; technically Psionic Powers is a worked example, but this isn't a Psi setting. The Goa'Uld or equivalent probably have Innate Magic to justify their Possession ability, and likewise other magical life would have some Innate or Fixed Magic.)

3. Path/Book Magic (One of my preferred forms in general. The Thaumatology supplements Age of Gold and Alchemical Baroque have several variants of this system. Ritual Path Magic is a worked example, though not one that I like. Verbal Path Magic could be an interesting option, but I have not playtested it. The Magic of Stories (Pyramid 3/13, pp4-14) is a worked example that would need reworking to fit, but is at least conceptually interesting for a setting like this.)

4. Syntactic Magic (Symbol Magic is probably the most fitting form for this setting, given all the walls full of symbols on Goa'Uld vessels and facilities; Thaumatology: Urban Magics has a couple of interesting variants: Lapidism and Sacred Architecture. Some forms of Symbol Magic may overlap with Magical Engineering. Realm Magic (under Syntactic Magic on the wiki) will be among the options if this wins, but isn't IMHO as fitting.)

5. Magic as Social Connections (Specifically, social connections with spirits and other magical beings. Contacts, Allies (not necessarily as Modular Abilities), Patrons (Divine Favor, Totem Spirits, and such), temporary Favors, and 'Spirits as Hirelings' (basically like Favors but using negotiation and the hiring rules). Spirit Assisted Magic overlaps with this and other systems. If this wins, or just gets enough votes to be significant to the setting, the Ascended are most likely going to be far more active than they were in the show. Also, this may mean that Mana is replaced with Sanctity for this setting, or that both are present.)

6. A version of the Spell-based system (I'm not fond of the standard system, but it can be useful, and there are some interesting variants people have made. Magical Styles, the Celtic Tree Magic system of alternate colleges from Thaumatology pp42-47, Spells as familiarities, or a simplified version that doesn't play well with magical styles, et cetra.)

7. Chi Magic (Cinematic skills, techniques, and other abilities from GURPS Martial Arts, probably expanded (e.g. some of the spells from GURPS Magic could be converted by replacing the prerequisites with Trained By A Master, Weapon Master, or equivalent). May include Chi-based powers, as well. If this ends up the primary or only winner, the setting might have no equivalent to Mana or Sanctity.)

8. Low Magic (Also called Hedge Magic, among other things; pretty compatible with Material Magic and Path/Book Magic, among others.)

9. Something that I haven't considered (please specify).

Please remember to include the number(s) of your preferred option(s) when you vote.


(I considered including Formulaic Magic, but that is such a broad category that it covers most of the other options.)

*******

Answer: Magic as Powers has four votes in favor, and is thus the primary system for the setting (the kara'kesh might not exist at all here, or might be an amplifier or power source, rather than the source of the abilities listed - alternatively, it might be something that only younger, weaker, or less 'wizardly' Goa'Uld use); Material Magic has four votes for and one against, so it'll be pretty common; Path/Book Magic has three votes counting mine; Spell-based Magic has two votes; Syntactic Magic (which might be mixed with PBM), Social Connections as Magic, and Low Magic stand at one vote each (the original civilization of the Ancients having Low Magic universally would make sense, without needing many in modern times to have that, and some of the other systems could have been invented by them), and so exist but aren't common in the modern era (but could still pop up and surprise the PCs). The other options are somewhere between 'very rare' (possibly Ancient and mostly forgotten, or just not used much) and 'the aptly named Sir Not-appearing-in-this-film.'

[RyanW]

Are you trying to make a fully fantasy world version, or are you thinking a magical portal is discovered on modern day Earth?

[Varyon]

An interesting concept, and I agree that Stargate works well for something like this - aside from the Earth humans (Tau'ri), the majority of the technology (and the innate abilities of the inhuman species encountered) are basically magic. For this thread, would you prefer we stick with each topic as it comes along (so, just talk about magic systems right now), or would you be fine with something more freeform (say, going ahead and giving out some ideas for the Goa'uld, Jaffa, Asgard, etc)?

[Fred Brackin]

okay, voting.

1 is necessary for the gates and other thigns msitaken for sufficiently advanced tech.

2. is necessary for the Powers of "Advanced" beings both fully "Evovled" spirits and evolving humanoids that aren't quite there yet.

6 (specifically its' Enchntment system)can be used to produce things that look like tech but actuallya ren't.

Everything else is very unlikely to be mistaken for tech or the powers of advanced beings.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by TGLS

That's kind of the opposite of what I was trying to say. My point was more, "flipping labels around doesn't transform science fiction setting into a fantastical setting, it makes a science fiction setting with weird labels." And so, transforming a science fiction setting into a fantastic one means that you need to detechnologicalize the unusual elements of the setting.

<SNIP>

OK, I've noted you down as a vote against 1, unless you say otherwise. Also, trying to come up with a way to describe a vote for emotionally or conceptually-variable magic items. In my mind, that best fits Fetishes from Path/Book Magic (and other spirit-related magic systems and styles), as the spirit within responds to the user and the situation. That should come after the 'mana or something related' vote (probably the next one, once this one gets finalized), since that would affect it.

Originally Posted by ericthered

Better yet, you should VOTE and then patiently wait for that to be a topic of discussion. I've run this type of thread before, and if you are interested, you should be voting... even if you're only expressing mild opinions. Without votes, the thread will fall apart.

Thank you, yes.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

okay, voting.

1 is necessary for the gates and other thigns msitaken for sufficiently advanced tech.

2. is necessary for the Powers of "Advanced" beings both fully "Evovled" spirits and evolving humanoids that aren't quite there yet.

6 (specifically its' Enchntment system)can be used to produce things that look like tech but actuallya ren't.

Everything else is very unlikely to be mistaken for tech or the powers of advanced beings.

Thank you for voting, even if I'm wincing at the idea of using the standard Enchantment system without serious modifications (and disagree that it's any better suited for 'looks like tech but is not' than any of the other ways of making magic items - most of them could, and Magical Engineering is almost exactly that). Possibly using naquadah and other preparations/houserules to allow for lots and lots of 'Quick and Focused' enchantment, but I'd still prefer something else. Not going to clutter the thread by arguing about it, but if you're curious about my opinion, these two threads go into it, albeit in somewhat thread-specific manners.

EDIT: Just in case it needs to be said, the vote should be open until at least Sunday (August 28).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

O


the other ways of making magic items - most of them could, and Magical Engineering is almost exactly that).

).

"Magical Engineering" isn't very well developed IMHO. It's more of a concept than a system but it's part of option 1 in any case.

I didn't even say that Standard Enchanting was better than any other option. I just said it would work. It's also been developed to the point that I find it easier to work with.

There are seom Palth/Book Rituals (Path of Gadgets logically enough) that can be used to permantly enhance tech but you have to bind a spirit into a fetish and when anybody figures out how to duplicate it the "non-techness" will become obvious. It might work as a big reveal in a horror-themed adventure.

[adm]

I would choose 1 and 2, for reasons already mentioned.

Either 3/4, or a blend, for all the times the show has them track down instructions on how to do something.

8 for unexpected low level abilities found during the "adventure of the week".

In general, having something like the Ancient's gene, and/or a naquadah infusion, to use the tech seems like a good idea.

Question; Are you limiting this to SG:1, or will you include either, or both, SG:A, and SG:U?