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Old 10-17-2016, 12:21 PM   #31
Mack_JB
 
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Default Re: Ninja Feedback Forum

Another added thought. We've got a beloved game that is now approaching 40 years old (!!!), and we've survived up til now without advanced arcane rule sets. I suspect we'll survive without them still, but for most of the game, the old KISS adage should hold sway.
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Old 10-17-2016, 12:35 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dwalend View Post
I'm not sure the ninja rules as presented would even be "fun once" for anyone but the player controlling the ninja. That player gets to pick which three-paragraph-sets of rules to try in the game. His opponent has to study and remember all of the three-paragraph-sets, then guess right through the game. That's a lot of time spent not playing (boredom), then playing but only using a small proportion of the rules just learned (disappointment). It's a big divisor shrinking the value of rules.
That's a good summary of my reaction. I think if my opponent brought a Ninja onto the board with these rules my reaction would be, "Okay, you win. Let's play something else."

If I wanted to play Squad Leader, I'd've set up Squad Leader.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:34 PM   #33
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It seems to me that the base chassis may very well actually be overpointed, or at the very least the enhancements are overpointed. I could not see it plausibly surviving a MkV defense in a Smash-the-CP scenario, and I am hard pressed to come up with a combination of enhancements that would even balance the Ninja against the extra armor units the defense gets for the enhancement, let alone drawing it even with the defense.

The un-enhanced Ninja's main toy - the ghost Ninjas, seem to have a straightforward counter: the first wave of defenders to hit it are each carrying a platoon of infantry with them. You overrun with one platoon of infantry. Two survive, one gets wiped out. Then you know. This vulnerability highlights some rules problems: 1. It is not clear that carrying infantry is allowed in Ogre-map scenarios [Gauntlet allows it only as scenario-specific rules.]. 2. The hands-down best vehicle to do this with is a hovertruck, for which no point value has been established. If the best counter against the Ninja is in a weird ambiguous space, rules wise, than so is the Ninja itself.

It also feels very Car-Wars-y, and not really in the good way - lots and lots of highly flavorful options. In Car Wars this works - both players are pulling flavorful options from the same list and bouncing them off each other, and the edge-case-y interactions between some of the options is part of the fun. But the defending player in Ogre doesn't get their own list of toys to play with. They just have to try to defend against a seemingly arbitrary jack-in-the-box that almost anything could pop out of. Maybe if the Ninja is re-conceptualized as an Ogre-killer, and more [most?] of the enhancements are various colorful ways to inconvenience an Ogre you're dueling, Ninja v. Ninja duels would get the cool effect the current rules draft is obviously aiming for. But against a conventional defense, as others have noted, all that color is just frustrating to play against.

Additionally, for me at least, one of the factors of Ogre that informs it's simplicity is that all of the information is public. Secret enhancements damage that badly. Having a point-source of implacable known strength rolling towards you is interesting and tense. You can analyse that and strategize against it, learning important lessons along the way. Having an jack-in-the-box with arbitrary semi-random secret behavior filling that role... the game stops being a laboratory you can learn interesting and useful general lessons from.

Last edited by HeatDeath; 10-17-2016 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzardo View Post
Call me a wet blanket or an old fuddy-duddy or whatever, but all these options take the game in a direction that doesn't interest me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomc View Post
I look at all this as adding more variety, rather than complexity. Most scenarios aren't going to use more than one or two of these concepts at once.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin View Post
This is just me trying to make it all make sense; too many of these feel waaaay out in left field and are too far away from what Ogre is meant to be in my eyes.
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Originally Posted by Mack_JB View Post
the Ninja and Vulcan just feel way too "left field" for my tastes.
And this is why we're having this discussion. I'd like to pause here to make a few comments, and then allow this discussion to move forward, with perhaps some focus as to what to change/omit/etc.

First: a retrospective. Ogre was/is an incredibly simple game. That is a good thing. One super tank vs. four other units and infantry. No terrain; no modifiers. Shoot/kill or die. This is unquestionably part of its charm and lasting appeal. Let's call this "Tier One".

Then came G.E.V., or Tier Two gaming with this system. Terrain, defensive modifiers, overrun rules, additional units (albeit strait-forward ones); this is a whole new level of complexity. Some players rejected much of it, especially the overrun rules. Others were ecstatic as they wanted "more" to the game. The new rules were more complex, but more realistic. Players could draw the line wherever they wanted, adopting the rules that fit their style of play the best.

Tier Three was Shockwave, with Cruise Missiles and Lasers. LADs and HWTs fell here too. Again, some loved them, others not-so-much. And some loved some parts and not others. I'll be honest in saying it is only recently that I've finally adopted Cruise Missiles into any of my play, and my tendencies in writing scenarios is still to shy away from them. But players could pick and choose where they wanted to draw the line in the rules; I played the game for decades without using anything relating to Cruise Missiles. I definitely was a "Tier Two plus" player! (I liked HWTs…)

Finally, we have Tier Four - the Combat Engineering/Vulcan and Ninja rules. It is interesting that the Ninja has generated a wider spectrum of opinions than the Vulcan, despite the Vulcan rules actually being of far greater complexity and "less Ogre". Perhaps it is because the wide skill set is customizable in the Ninja and not the Vulcan? There definitely is a Car Wars feel to it that I haven't been able to scrub out. Maybe people have their own Ninja preconceptions, and anything outside of it seems "wrong"? Perhaps our forum members are all closet sappers? I don't know. But the Combat Engineering rules actually have many more game changing concerns than much of the Ninja rules, and yet have had very little push back (unfortunately).

Which brings us to this point. Anything can be used, or not used, within the system. That is definitely part of the the beauty of the Ogre game system. And it was a conscious decision to have the "old Ninja" be an easily made version within these rules - the only thing truly new and "required" is the ghost rules. Players can choose to use, or not use, any parts of the proposed rules. Only want the OM version? Just agree to only use the Morning Mist and Night Fog tricks; the only new thing to address is the ghost rules. Like G.E.V., and like Shockwave, these proposed rules (CE/Vulcan and Ninja) have added another tier to the game. I guess it all depends on how far down the rabbit hole we want to go!

Which highlights the last point, and why I thank all of you for engaging in this spirited discussion: these are a proposal. I don't believe anyone at SJ Games envisions these as a final draft; I know I don't. But we had reached a point where they did need playing with, evaluating, critiquing, advocating for, arguing against, etc. This wasn't going to happen without you.

So to finish where I started at the beginning of the thread: what do you like, what don't you like, what should be ditched, what should be expanded? Perhaps the final version will have only a choice of 4-5 options. Perhaps it will have no choices, and 2-3 options will be "built in" as "stock options", to (regrettably) continue the Car Wars analogy. All I ask is that you evaluate the choices with a critical eye, and comment on each as independent variables, rather than make sweeping endorsements or dismissals. (Some of you have done this already: Tim, GP, FJ, others…). THAT will help move things forward.

D.

(And I mean it when I said that the Combat Engineering/Vulcan rules could use more critiquing. You guys have been waaaaaay too lenient in evaluating that case!)

D.
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:59 PM   #35
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3 thoughts, in response to HeatDeat and Wolf90:

1) I really don't see a Ninja being a good candidate for an Orange Map scenario in the first place. Ninja's are silent strikers, doing their best to hit the target without even being detected until it's too late. The Orange Map has nowhere to hide - the defender knows you're coming and it's a stand-up fight, something the Ninja is definitely not meant for. Against a Mk V defense, even if you sacrifice a couple GEVs to kill the ghosts, you've still got more than enough firepower to take out a Ninja and have room for more.

2) I'm wondering if the final rules should be less of a case of 'here's the bag of tricks, customize your Ninja' and more of 'while every Ninja was unique, they essentially boiled down to the following 5(?) main variants - pick 1.' That way, there can be preset Ninja stat cards for the various types and each one has clear rules about how they operate. That would also make it easy to plan Ninja scenarios by basing them on the most common point cost and making adjustments if needed for others.

3) I know Steve has said the Ghosts are how he really wanted the Ninja to work, but I have to wonder if this is the best way to do it. That said, I also haven't been able to come up with a better idea myself, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one. The idea of ghosts isn't a bad one, but the whole mechanic of having to keep separate record sheets for hits on them strikes me as being a bit more bookkeeping than most players want to do. After all, we're essentially talking about keeping track of up to 3 Ogres separately at a time, and any time a new ghost is spawned the you have to clone the record sheet of the Ninja that spawned the new ghost. Assuming no extra ghosts, you're talking about potentially needing 7(!) copies of the Ninja record sheet per Ninja PER GAME. And that's clearly too much. I think that if we can come up with a simpler way of handling them, it'll go over a lot better with the "old fuddy-duddies" :)

I have to admit I'm torn between loving the Chinese menu system and feeling like the Ninja just kicked KISS in the teeth...
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Also I wonder why many of these are only options for Ninja, why can't the missile variants in particular be able to replace Rattlers on all Combine Ogres?
This is a conversation that I had with Steve, questioning the very same thing. His response was that the Ninja was a Combine unit produced late in the war; resources were becoming scarce and it was the final "new" Ogre before empires collapsed. Had things held together longer and resources been more plentiful, there may have been more expanded use of the options that were proven field-tested and worthwhile. Additionally, the rank and file Ogres would have started developing countermeasures to some tricks.

Again, in the canon Ogre-verse, Ninja are both rare and designed for specific missions.

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Old 10-17-2016, 07:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by tomc View Post
I look at all this as adding more variety, rather than complexity. Most scenarios aren't going to use more than one or two of these concepts at once.
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Originally Posted by Dave Crowell View Post
When Shockwave came out I thought it added too much needless gunk and complexity to my favorite game. It took me a while to realize I don't have to use all of it at once, or even any of it if don't want to.

I like having the option to field cruise missiles or heavy weapons teams, or Ninjas.

That being said, I do feel overwhelmed by all the options for customizing the Ninja. This is Ogre, not Car Wars!
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Originally Posted by Mack_JB View Post
Another added thought. We've got a beloved game that is now approaching 40 years old (!!!), and we've survived up til now without advanced arcane rule sets. I suspect we'll survive without them still, but for most of the game, the old KISS adage should hold sway.
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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
I have to admit I'm torn between loving the Chinese menu system and feeling like the Ninja just kicked KISS in the teeth...
Oh, KISS died a horrible soul-searing death miles back! There is nothing KISS-like about either the Vulcan or Ninja rules. Which is incredibly ironic coming from me, for those of you who know me from prior discussion!

These are options and yet another layer; they may be good, they may not. Time (and you all!) will tell.

D.
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:21 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by offsides View Post
1) I really don't see a Ninja being a good candidate for an Orange Map scenario in the first place. Ninja's are silent strikers, doing their best to hit the target without even being detected until it's too late.
Agreed to a limited extent. It may slow the defense response down a little bit initially, but once you've pegged the "real" Ninja, it's back to a straight out brawl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offsides View Post
2) I'm wondering if the final rules should be less of a case of 'here's the bag of tricks, customize your Ninja' and more of 'while every Ninja was unique, they essentially boiled down to the following 5(?) main variants - pick 1.'
This is a very real possibility, and on my "paths to pursue" list!

Quote:
Originally Posted by offsides View Post
3) I know Steve has said the Ghosts are how he really wanted the Ninja to work, but I have to wonder if this is the best way to do it. That said, I also haven't been able to come up with a better idea myself, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one.
To date, this is the best idea proposed. Hidden movement without a referre (which I'm strongly opposed having as a required element), is a near-impossibility. But I'm all ears; again - lokke got us started on this path, not anyone at SJGames! (Thanks again, Lokke!)

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Old 10-17-2016, 08:43 PM   #39
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I’ll put forth some of my own ideas here for contrast. I join others in this forum in their reservations as to the New Ninja, but I’ll try here to honor the original intent. If we must have a Swiss-Army Ogre, then at least make in more in line with established rules and mechanics. I’ve not always succeeded in keeping the brain cell count to a minimum, but I tried to give as much variety while keeping (I hope) a high variety-to-brain-cell ratio. Rule-recycling was the order of the day, or at least keeping to common other-game mechanics like re-rolls and dice-offs between players. Many will note that a lot of the special munitions that follow are at least tailored to common situations. I guess what I’m trying to show is that a lot of variety is still possible with existing mechanics, if cleverly applied.

The New New Ninja:
One Main, Two Secondaries, Eight APs, Two Missile Cells, One Missile Rack plus Four Internals. 40 Treads, Move 4. 150 VPs.
(hmmm, looks oddly familiar. BTW: If Nihon were to build their own stealth Ogre, would they call it the Yankee??)

Standard Equipment/Rules:
  • ECM provides defensive bonus of -1 on CRT against all attacks (except infantry in over-runs).
  • No combined attacks except by infantry up to platoon level or intra multi-weapon platforms.
  • CM-immunity via jammer. 6 hexes (?).
Has two modular attachment points (VPs in parenthesis, justification in parenthesis at end), one on each side of the rear hull. Each is D3. These can be:

Fi-Con Guns (15) : +1 range to all Mains, Seconds, and AP. Max 1. (Simple)
Fi-Con Missiles (15): +1 range to all Missiles, internal & external. Max 1. (Simple)
Drone Control (10): 4 Drone Control Channels. And if you must have something like “Puppet Master”, see Legion of the Dead instead. (Others have to answer for DCC rules, this just uses them).
Legion of the Dead: (Drone Control +30 VP, victims not included). The Ninja decides that THE MISSION and its own existence take priority. It subverts nearby friendly (and unsuspecting) units via pre-arranged backdoors and uses up to four them at a time as it sees fit. As long as these units remain within (pick a number) hexes, they’re immune to ‘D’ results – their crews may be reduced to burnt skeletons, but their AI’s augmented by the Ninja can fight on unhindered or undiminished in contrast to other ‘Disabled’ units. All units subverted count half their VPs as destroyed (assuming they're not completely destroyed in the fight), even if they survive the game.

For extra horror: don’t exempt Infantry from this. Each stack (whether 1, 2, or 3 squads) takes one of the four slots. Infantry in GEV-PCs (or similar) count as 1 slot together (it doesn’t take many CPU cycles to say ‘stay there’). All infantry used this way count as destroyed VPs at the end of the scenario -- imagine what this did to their arms and legs inside those suits…
LAD Rack (15): carries 2 (maybe 3?) LADs that can be dropped off on the go. (Others have to answer for LAD rules, ...).
Vulcan Arm (??): Can do anything 2 squads of CEs can do. (Others have to answer for Vulcan rules, ...).
Mine Rack (5) : 6 (maybe 8 or 10?) standard mines. See Caltrop above. (Don’t like mines, but they’re logical…).
Beagle Sensor (10): Mine spotting and powered-down units out to 2 (maybe 3?) hexes. Max 1. (OK, this one’s ugly. But if mines gotta exist, so do minesweepers…).
Turbo (15): Adds one free hex of movement for 1 turn and ignores terrain rules (like 2 MPs for towns or water or disables for swamps, etc.) for that one hex. Then burns out. Note the turbo-speed only works for ONE hex, that second swamp hex you want to go through?? Yeah, you’re gonna have to roll for that one… (Simple yet powerful way to surprise a defender).
Laser (40): Takes up both slots. Attack 1, Range 10, 4 shots/no infantry (too dispersed!). Destruction of either D3 pod disables whole system. Rolls normal versus CMs and Heavy Missiles. (Because you know a Ninja has to have a freak’n LaZoR BeaM. I tried to nerf it to something reasonable).

These next three might require a few more brain cells, but basically boil down to re-roll rules. I tried to add variety while KISSing:

Razzle-Dazzle (10): Once per turn can attempt redirect enemy attack to treads, saving weapons. Roll D6, if greater or equal to attackers’ roll, attack affects Treads instead, as if attack had been against them from the start. No need to re-roll enemy attack. In this case however, Ninja does NOT get usual -1 CRT modifier. (Simple dice off, just match/beat the other guy’s roll. Kept from being uber by the simple fact that the Ninja should not want to lose treads, but sometimes you must keep that Missile Rack operational…)
Decoy Rack (20): Special ECM dispenser. 4 decoys, max one per turn. Force opponent to re-roll one attack of normal or overrun combat. Must accept results even if worse than original. (Simple re-roll defense, and limited by ammo so’s not too overpowering).
Target Designator (20): Used once per turn. Ninja can re-roll one MB/SB/AP attack per turn. Must accept results even if worse than original. Cannot be combined with Fi-Con Guns. The Ninja can have both units, but can't combine them for the same attack. Attacks incorporating Heavy Missiles cannot use this. (Simple re-roll attack).

No, the enemy can't tell what they are just by looking, but he will know which is which after you use it (thus he can target a specific pod he knows you have, otherwise flip a coin or something).

GHOSTS are weaponless Fast Super-Heavies (-/- D4 M4) (D4 because they had to lighten it up to get it to go faster. Keep the APs at least?) that electronically 'look' just like an Ninja until it's 'unmasked'. They even drag special rakes that leave the right kind of tread marks. Don't need a drone channel to control. Keep them safe, because they're expensive: 25 VPs each. (this is the version I can stomach).

I’m unsure about “Unmasking” rules except they should be kept simple: like anything within 2 hexes. Or shoots at them: recon-by-fire works both ways... Alternate rule: Infantry roll D6 per stack (1, 2, 3 squads, if you want better odds of detecting a Ninja, scatter them around as lookouts). If equal or greater than range to target, true nature is revealed. This makes infantry valuable as detectors. You can’t fool the Mark-1 Eyeball… (gives reason to bring infantry to a Ninja fight)

Last edited by FJCestero; 10-18-2016 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:44 PM   #40
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[Note: Edited a bit after more thought. I'm trying to rationalize the missile varieties, simplify the rules, make the warheads 'modular'. Still thinking about this.]

In addition, a Ninja gets access to more missile toys not available to others (mostly). Substitute for internal/external missiles as desired.

Skud : 4/4 early Generation heavy missile. Still used by Tier-2 world powers. (because not everything should be uber).

Rattler : Standard 6/5 vanilla heavy missile.

Javelin (+2 VP): 4/7 heavy missile. (This has been suggested elsewhere. Stolen from Nihon?)

The above three are the "standard" types. These can make use of the Fi-Con modules described above and so forth. Specialized warheads (below) CANNOT use those upgrades. You can pimp your missiles one way, or the other, but not both. This is to Keep It Simple and prevent min/maxing by simply outlawing it wholesale.

Trident (+4 VP): 3x3/5 MIRVs. Attacks three hexes, each at A3 (like MSL tanks). All in a tight cluster, like a triangle. Can not combine for one A9 attack or anything like that. Only one of these can be beyond maximum range (nerf!). For bunched up enemies. The Skud/Javelin versions only have 2 MIRVs, not three and must be adjacent. Again, only one can be beyond the max range. (One Rattler, or three bunched up MSLs? Decisions, decisions).

Inferno (+4 VP): Special/5. Area Denial. Shoot at hex. Anything in or that enter for rest of game takes an immediate A3 attack, or an A3 attack for each turn it stays there. OGREs suffer 1:1 treads attacks. No terrain/bunker defense bonuses apply. Skud and Javelin versions are the same (napalm is napalm after all). (for ‘corking’ that one hex the enemy has to get through to get at you).

Firestorm (+6 VP): Combine Trident 3-hex MIRV cluster with Inferno. Attack is only A2, though. Again, Skud and Javelin versions only pack 2 MIRVs. (for REALLY avoiding the initial defenders dog-pile on…)

Grass Clipper (+5 VP): Infantry killer. 6/5 like standard Rattler, but cluster/FAE munitions deny infantry any cover or terrain benefits. Useless against armor or other hard targets. Skud and Javelin versions stats are as given, but treat damage profile as AP minus any defense bonus. (combine a standard Rattler with AP effects. no extra brain-cells required).

Lawn Mower (+8 VP): AP + MIRV. Combine Trident MIRV with AP munitions. Three hex triangle at 3-AP. Infantry get no defense bonus, only one hex beyond maximum range, etc.

Nimrod (+4 VP): 6/5*. Hate GEVs? Any GEV type that got within range during its previous turn can be attacked no matter how far it ran away during its second move, even if you've moved in the other direction! Only good for GEVs that crossed your path in the previous. This one could be generalized for any unit type -- the idea is you don't have to slow down or backtrack to shoot those guys trying to work in behind you anymore...
Skud and Javelin versions all work the same, with different ranges of course.

Bugeye (+5 VP): -/5 heavy missile. Sensor Cloud. Scans hex for mines, powered down units, etc. etc. What really comes in handy is that the sensor cloud also eliminates any terrain defense bonuses for any unit infantry or armor for that hex for the rest of the game. Skud and Javelin versions differ by deployment range. (when you NEED to neutralize one hex).

Stealth NUKE (+25 VP): NUKE/5 heavy missile. Cruise Missile mine warhead on a stealthed missile. Place it up to 5 hexes from wherever you've been and the enemy won't know until too late! Can detonate the turn after deployed. Yes, I still question the rocket engine physics. A nuclear mine you can leave somewhere in your wake. Skud and Javelin versions differ by their deployment range. (This one might be a bit much, YMMreeeeaaallyV).

Vector (+10 VP): A folded-up tilt-fan airplane (wait?? we still have those?!?). Carries your basic A6 warhead and can move 5 hexes/turn Nap-Of-Earth for 4 turns. Until it hits something, that is. D3 to shoot down. A ‘D’ result is the same as an ‘X’ because, you know, it crashes. Basically, a Rattler that is sort-of like a CM. Skud and Javelin versions differ by their travel/turn movement. (I’ll admit, this one is iffy).

These next ones I’m cautious with: I invented them, so it’s hard for me to judge their cost in Brain Cells and whether they break the KISS principle. They can only replace external missiles, not internal missiles (which helps keep them from dominating too much). With a mixed bag of specials, when any external missile is destroyed, roll randomly to see which one in particular got hit.

School Bus (+10 VP): Candy-gram of your favorite kinetics and self-forging warheads: range 7, trace the route (no backtracks, no loops, no stay-and-attack-agains: just drop the kids off and keep going). Everything you over-fly takes A2. Enough blam! to clear a path, or disable enemies before you run them over. . (pretty powerful, nerfed it to A2, maybe drop the range to 5?).

Daisy (+20 VP): Gigantic cluster bomb. Every infantry stack (whether 1,2,or 3 squads) within 1 hex of Ninja takes 1:1 attack unless in cover (forest, city) in which case role at 1:2. Damage is as AP, only infantry need worry (but they REALLY need to worry). (Take one if you’re thinking you might get surrounded/swarmed by infantry). May be to powerful. May be rule-obsoleted by Lawn Mower above (rule-obsoleted = why have rules for both and the other one is 'cleaner').

Claymore (+10 VP): For offensive over-runs. Three A3, range zero attacks equally good versus infantry and armor before defender can attack. (very useful versus over-runs, a Ninja’s nightmare. Makes sense they’d build something special like this).

Pepperpot (+5 VP): Tactical Missile Launcher. 3/4 just like a MSL tank with effectively unlimited ammo, instead of a 1-shot 6/5. (Sustained fire versus alpha strike?)

Fat Boy (+30 VP): Standard Rattler with CM warhead. Use with caution... (because you know somebody would’ve tried this…)

Comm-Link (+?? VP): Not a missile, but a shielded comm-dish in a Rattler silo. By up-linking to one of the few remaining recon-sats allows Ninja to best chose time and place of attack. Game effect: all enemy reinforcements delayed by one turn. Also allows Ninja and allied units to set up last, regardless of scenario description. (Out-of-the-box scenario variety).

This last one is almost assuredly too much. But I’ve always wondered (what with the invention of the Missile Rack) that Rattlers don’t have ‘salvo’ rules or get more useful the more of them you use (besides linearly, I mean). To my mind, launching four Rattlers at one target should be ‘better’ than four single launches. This is my idea for having a Ninja blunt the effect of all those PanEuro Racks…

Fly Swatter (+15 VP) : Pod with six interceptors. Any Heavy Missile fired at the Ninja can be shot down with decreasing probability as the defensive envelope is saturated. The first missile is shot down on a 1-5 on one die. The second missile is stopped on a 1-4, the third on a 1-3, etc. Each missile can be engaged only once. Each turn resets the count. Any combined attack who’s missile gets shot down must proceed with the new (lower) odds. A second pod gives the ability to ‘double tap’ an incoming: expend two interceptors and subtract 1 from the roll. More pods only adds to the number of interceptors available. Also works against CMs that get within 3 hexes. Sort of like the RIM-116 system, but with OGREs. Useful versus Fencers and CMs… (Yes, I stole the mechanics from 1st Edition Starfire…).


AI Options. The Ninja can also have a sentient AI on-board. Pick one.

Able : (+20% of total cost). Pick an enemy unit type (SHVY,HVY,LT,GEV+LGEV,GEV-PC,HWTZ(any),INF(any)): Defend -1 (extra) on CRT. Does not apply in over-runs (would be too powerful taken vs. infantry!). (WH40k preferred enemy, defense…).
Cain : (+20% of total cost). Pick an enemy unit type (SHVY,HVY,LT,GEV+LGEV,GEV-PC,HWTZ(any),INF(any)): Attack +1 on CRT. (WH40k preferred enemy, offense…).
Belisarius : (+33.3% of total cost). Once in game, steal a march on opponent. Instead of IGUG, IGUG turn sequence is: IGIG, UGUG. You get to go twice in a row, but afterwards your enemy gets to go twice too (if you use this correctly there won’t be much of him left). Return to IGUG afterwards. Very powerful, probably too much, but it is SIMPLE! This represents genius-level tactics by the AI.
Subedei : (+15% of total cost). Unit gains 1 MP during 2nd Move Phase, like a GEV, but with OGRE move-class. This can not qualify for a road bonus. Subedei is just good at 'reading' terrain and dodging.
Horatio : (+15% of total cost). All non-tread, non-AP systems get +1D for duration (focused ECM, point defense, smart use of duck-and-cover, etc.)

Other stuff (no brain-cell cost to defender):
Gun Upgrade: (+10 VP). Both secondary batteries are upgraded to 3/3 D3 extended range variety. DOES stack with Fi-Con:Guns.

Spaced Armor: (5 VP each). Those cool side-skirts you see on some modern tanks? Yeah, those. Basically extra Tread Units, but only for the first, top Move point. 5 VPs each, maximum of ˝ of a move points Tread Units. I.e.: an Ninja with 40 TU (split 10/10/10/10) could have up to 5 Spaced Armor units (costing 25VP) which would make its Tread profile (15/10/10/10).

Ram plate: (10 VP). +1D6 damage done, -1D6 damage taken in ram when mounting OGRE does the ramming. No effect otherwise.

Cleated Treads: (10 VP). Not practical for general use as they wear out quickly, but for special mission Ninjas… Swamps are still 2MP, but no ‘sticking’, the price paid is no ‘road bonus’ either.

Tow: (?? VP). Ninja can now drag stuff around. Depends on scenario...

Last edited by FJCestero; 10-18-2016 at 08:01 PM.
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