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Old 09-28-2018, 07:19 PM   #1
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Question about Two-Weapon skill

Quote:
This talent permits a character fighting with two weapons,
on any turn he attacks, to do any one of the following:
(a) attack with both weapons, at normal DX for the
first attack and -4 for the second one. The attacks may be
against the same or different figures.
(b) make a normal attack with one weapon and parry
with the other. The second weapon acts as a shield to stop
2 points of damage from each attack.
(c) parry with both weapons, adding an extra die to
attempts to hit you and stopping 4 points of damage from
any successful attack, but not threatening the enemy.
Option C makes it very clear what happens when you use both weapons to "parry".

If you take option B, does the attacker add an extra die to his attack? I'm thinking "No" because it isn't said.

The answer to this would seem to have bearing on whether or not one can Defend with a shield (use a shield to make the attacker roll an extra die).
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:45 PM   #2
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

I think the official answer is no, but that it's about that you're not being entirely defensive. The one parrying weapon isn't deemed enough for the +1d to hit.

(I've always thought the added armor from parrying left-hand weapons is a bit strange as a mechanic.)
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:13 PM   #3
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

I would say definitely not. If you want that you need to take the defend option. but I suppose the intent might not be what I'm guessing
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:14 PM   #4
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

@Skarg
Yeah, I started thinking about the parry-dagger and then saw your "fine-print" LOL

@Skarg @Lars
It is a bit strange but you can parry without one. Same goes for a shield. You can parry without a shield. So, being able to parry with a shield or a parry-dagger adds nothing to your defensive capabilities..."Hmm. Well, let's make 'em act like armor" becomes the solution.
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:19 PM   #5
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I would say definitely not. If you want that you need to take the defend option. but I suppose the intent might not be what I'm guessing
No, I think the intent is exactly what you are guessing. Option C _IS_ the "defend" option.
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Old 03-21-2023, 12:01 PM   #6
Soylencer
 
Join Date: Mar 2023
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by platimus View Post
Option C makes it very clear what happens when you use both weapons to "parry".

If you take option B, does the attacker add an extra die to his attack? I'm thinking "No" because it isn't said.

The answer to this would seem to have bearing on whether or not one can Defend with a shield (use a shield to make the attacker roll an extra die).
Necro, but:

When would we decide if the parry is/has been used?

If the figure with two weapons is attacked before their action do they chose whether to parry once or twice or not parry, and then apply the remainder of the action (attacking once, zero, or two times respectively) as their turn?

If they are up first, is it up to them to hold off on the second attack in order to store up for a "parry" later in the round?
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Old 03-21-2023, 01:58 PM   #7
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soylencer View Post
Necro, but:

When would we decide if the parry is/has been used?

If the figure with two weapons is attacked before their action do they chose whether to parry once or twice or not parry, and then apply the remainder of the action (attacking once, zero, or two times respectively) as their turn?

If they are up first, is it up to them to hold off on the second attack in order to store up for a "parry" later in the round?
That's how I play it. If attacked first, you must declare that you parry before the dice are rolled. If you attack first, you may attack with your primary weapon and hold off to see if you want to parry with your secondary weapon.
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Old 03-21-2023, 02:21 PM   #8
Shostak
 
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Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soylencer View Post
Necro, but:

When would we decide if the parry is/has been used?

If the figure with two weapons is attacked before their action do they chose whether to parry once or twice or not parry, and then apply the remainder of the action (attacking once, zero, or two times respectively) as their turn?

If they are up first, is it up to them to hold off on the second attack in order to store up for a "parry" later in the round?
If you are attacked before your turn to act, you'd have to choose whether to
  1. attack with both weapons
  2. attack with one weapon and parry with the other
  3. parry with both weapons

If you act first, you can opt for any of the above, or choose to defer your action to let someone else go first. If you chose either of the latter options and nobody attacks you to make you use your parry, you could change your option to make a second attack.
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Old 03-22-2023, 12:11 AM   #9
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

This all brings up the somewhat blurry line between "Defend" and "Parry" as introduced by the rules for these two-weapon situations. "Parry" is not an option, only "Defend" is an option. "Defend" is defined as using your ready weapon to parry against (any) incoming attacks. You only get one option per turn, so you can't opt to "Attack" and to "Defend" in the same turn -- normally that's never allowed.

Except, when you can. That being when using two weapons, one to "Attack" and the other to "Defend" in the same turn, which sounds like a contradiction in the rules. I suspect the word "Parry" got brought in at that point so it wouldn't sound so contradictory. In reality though it's not so complicated: it's just being consistent with how it works when two weapons are used to make one "Attack" each in the same turn. You can never use "Attack" twice in the same turn either. Except, when you can.

If you are using two weapons at once, you end up with 4 choices: Attack+Attack, Attack+Defend, Defend+Attack, and Defend+Defend. And it comes up more often than you might at first think, because a shield is a weapon too. In that regard, many figures fight with two weapons at once.

To end confusion for new members that joined my old group, we nixed the "Defend" option altogether, replacing it with a "Parry" option. (Unlike "Defend", which is a passive option, we treated "Parry" as an active defense.) Then anyone using both their weapons at once could choose "Attack with Intent to Parry" or "Parry with Intent To Attack", accepting a voluntary DX penalty to the first action to reserve enough attention for the second one.

One can view "Parry" and "Attack" as equivalent actions for all purposes, like two sides to the same coin. You're either striking at your opponent to cause damage, or striking at your opponent's weapon to stop damage.
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Old 03-22-2023, 12:58 PM   #10
timm meyers
 
Join Date: May 2020
Default Re: Question about Two-Weapon skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by platimus View Post
Option C makes it very clear what happens when you use both weapons to "parry".

If you take option B, does the attacker add an extra die to his attack? I'm thinking "No" because it isn't said.

The answer to this would seem to have bearing on whether or not one can Defend with a shield (use a shield to make the attacker roll an extra die).
Interesting question. Never encountered an unarmed player with a shield that considered using the defend option (and probably never will).
However as pointed out in some of the further replies, using a shield is similar to wielding 2 weapons. The game mechanics of parry are ultimately the same as turning a second weapon into a damage absorbing piece of armor just like a shield.

With this view in mind I really like the idea that an unarmed man could choose the defend option using only their shield. Again the chance of this situation happening is low in my opinion but it fits well within the rules and effects as written.
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