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Old 05-20-2022, 07:54 AM   #11
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I'm not sure your perk does this either. Instead of having a swordsman master one skill for the sword, you have them still needing both skills, but now getting the benefits of both one and two-handed use.

This also doesn't really reflect any possible real world training because most of the benefits of two-handed use are very much a consequence of grip.

Although I am not sure why Weapon Adaptation doesn't work here.
So the thing about Weapon Adaptation, the canonical uses are all cases of using non-fencing weapons with fencing skills, which explicitly does give "fencing parries, superior retreats, and encumbrance penalties". In other use-cases, it's unclear what "all of the benefits and drawbacks of that skill" means, because you need to be able to distinguish between feature of the skill vs. feature of the weapon or grip. But maybe I'm overthinking this.
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Old 05-20-2022, 08:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
So the thing about Weapon Adaptation, the canonical uses are all cases of using non-fencing weapons with fencing skills, which explicitly does give "fencing parries, superior retreats, and encumbrance penalties". In other use-cases, it's unclear what "all of the benefits and drawbacks of that skill" means, because you need to be able to distinguish between feature of the skill vs. feature of the weapon or grip. But maybe I'm overthinking this.
Well in the case of (Two-handed Sword to Broadsword) it would let you use one skill. Probably not much else, but that's what you wanted?
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Old 05-20-2022, 08:43 AM   #13
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Well in the case of (Two-handed Sword to Broadsword) it would let you use one skill. Probably not much else, but that's what you wanted?
Here is where I start possibly over-thinking this: what effect does this have on the default for Reverse Grip? For how Dual-Weapon Defense works? For how Defensive Grip works? Etc.
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Old 05-20-2022, 08:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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Here is where I start possibly over-thinking this: what effect does this have on the default for Reverse Grip? For how Dual-Weapon Defense works? For how Defensive Grip works? Etc.
Those all depend on how many hands you are actually using, not the skill.
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Old 05-20-2022, 09:57 AM   #15
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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Well in the case of (Two-handed Sword to Broadsword) it would let you use one skill. Probably not much else, but that's what you wanted?
While I wouldn't have a problem with it, I believe one of the explicit requirements for Weapon Adaptation is that the two skills use the same number of hands. Merging Shortsword and Broadsword, Two Handed Axe/Mace and Polearm, etc are all fine - merging Two Handed Sword and Broadsword, or Two Handed Axe/Mace and One Handed Axe/Mace, isn't allowed outside of "silly" campaigns (where I think there was a reference to using a halberd with Knife).

Another issue is that Weapon Adaptation is, I think, meant to cover a single weapon rather than truly merging two skills. There's really no RAW way I'm aware of to avoid the two being different skills, although personally I'm inclined to either allow a Technique that buys off the penalty for defaulting one off the other or just let a Perk merge them outright.
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Old 05-20-2022, 10:17 AM   #16
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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Another issue is that Weapon Adaptation is, I think, meant to cover a single weapon rather than truly merging two skills. T.
In the one realistic use I've seen a (normally unthrowable) Bowie knife (a Long Knife in Gurps)was thrown at a wooden target from an axe-throwing grip causing the Bowie knife to stick in the wood edge first rather than the point-first tradtioal for Thrown Weapon(Knife).

So a fairly specific weapon used in a non-trditional way. Other uses might be transferring a Khopesh or Falcata to One-Handed Axe/Mace.
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Old 05-20-2022, 11:28 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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It can be viewed as an extremely limited variant of Extra Arm (Weapon Mount), or a melee variant of the Army of One perk. Thoughts?
Not sure what 2nd one is.

Keeping in mind here your weapon mount can't actually be targeted to disarm you (it's like the 'Force Extensions' enhancement) how much should the limitation be for a weapon mount that can only hold one sort of weapon?
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Old 05-20-2022, 11:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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So a fairly specific weapon used in a non-trditional way. Other uses might be transferring a Khopesh or Falcata to One-Handed Axe/Mace.
Humorously, given Axe/Mace and Broadsword don't share a default, you typically can't (again, outside of a "silly" campaign) use Weapon Adaptation there (the two skills must share a default, I believe one no worse than -4). But I believe it's not necessary in this case, as a khopesh at the least is actually listed as a weapon for both skills.
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Old 05-20-2022, 12:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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Hmmm. I do sort of see where you're coming from, though the status quo is that GURPS strongly disincentivizes trying to master both one-handed and two-handed sword use. At first I thought you could address this issue with the Weapon Adaptation perk, but Weapon Adaptation really isn't designed for this. There might be a third option I'm overlooking though.
I strongly encourage making the defaults between Melee Weapon skills less punitive (either -2 or -3 between Broadsword and Two-Handed Sword).
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Old 05-20-2022, 03:02 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Martial Arts] New perk idea: Two and a Half Hands

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I strongly encourage making the defaults between Melee Weapon skills less punitive (either -2 or -3 between Broadsword and Two-Handed Sword).
Based on my experience using medieval-style melee weapons and watching others use them, I'd allow defaults between most weapons at -2. Closely related weapons (e.g., Knife to Shortsword, Shortsword to Broadsword, Broadsword to 2-H Sword) should be -1. Defaults between more different weapons should be at -3.

Additionally, Boxing or Karate should default to melee weapon skills at -5 because you understand things like striking range, proper stance, and tradeoffs between attack and defense. I've seen a black belt karateka with no prior weapons experience strap on armor, pick up a sword and shield for the first time and perform credibly in practice.

That said, the GURPS melee weapon rules have been around since Man to Man and work extremely well, so there's not a whole lot of reason to change them.
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