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Old 03-19-2020, 01:31 PM   #1
Acrisius
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Default Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

Hi everyone. I check (googled) and came up with nothing... I think this may just be a very old subject but i would love the input please. i know how extra attack and combinations work, i just don't know about the following.

I making a Martial Arts Char and ran into a problem that i couldn't work out.

Combinations - 2 or 3 attacks in one attack (with pens)
dual weapon attack - 2 attacks with buy off the -4 off hand
Ambidexterity - use your off hand with the buy off -4

Right now i have all three, but with combinations i don't need those right? Cause the negs are added into it (-6 , -12 not using train by master or weapon master). So my question is, what would be the point (or is there a point) on getting dual weapon attack or ambidexterity with my combinations?
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Old 03-19-2020, 02:35 PM   #2
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

So, DWA and Rapid Strikes cannot be used together, so that is a major factor. Rapid Strikes (except for cinematic fighters) suffer a -6 to skill, so they are less effective than DWA at -4 (especially since they do not inflict a -1 to defense when targeting the same individual). If you are using weapons for defense, Ambidexterity also compensates for the -4 to attack and defense, so it is useful for that reason (though there is perk that is the equivalent for a single skill).

In general, if you do not have cinematic characters, it is better to invest in high skill and use DWA to slice and dice. For example, a ST 14 and DX 14 character with Ambidexterity and Combat Reflexes can take Broadsword at DX+10 and make DWA attacks to the face with light clubs at skill 15 for 2d+1 crushing damage per attack. Every turn, you are dealing two major wounds, and you are making two parris per turn at defense 16.
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Old 03-19-2020, 02:45 PM   #3
RyanW
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

There are three things here:

Rapid Strike is an option that allows you to make two strikes when you would otherwise get only one (Options exist to allow more than two). All the attacks are at a penalty that scales with the number of extra strikes.
Dual Weapon Attack allows you to make a strike with two different weapons, with specific limitations. Both attacks are at a penalty.
An off-hand attack is at -4 in addition to any other penalty for multiple attacks.

A right-left combo would be -6/-10 without any of the relevant buy off traits. Combination would buy off up to -6, while Ambidexterity (or Off Hand Weapon Training) would eliminate the extra -4 for the off hand attack.

Rapid Strike and Dual Weapon Attack are separate, and cannot be combined.

Edit: And if you also have Extra Attack, you get one additional strike each turn when you select a maneuver that allows one or more.
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Last edited by RyanW; 03-19-2020 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 03-19-2020, 02:51 PM   #4
Acrisius
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post

A right-left combo would be -6/-10 without any of the relevant buy off traits. Combination would buy off up to -6, while Ambidexterity (or Off Hand Weapon Training) would eliminate the extra -4 for the off hand attack.

Rapid Strike and Dual Weapon Attack have are separate, and cannot be combined.
so going off this, (i have train by master) my 3 hit combat (with is -12, -6 with train by master) would now be -4 with train by master and still only be the 1 attack maneuver. So in the long run it would be better for Ambidexterity with combination like i thought it would...?

right now he has a 14 in both dex and strand my GM likes the extra effort rule so i thought i would show him the combinations i came up with but needed to work this out first. this is a cinematic build.
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Old 03-19-2020, 03:17 PM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

The problem with combinations is that they are highly structured. Every combination is a sequence of specific attacks that target the same locations every time. It is almost always worth the effort to purchase the skill rather than the combination.
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Old 03-19-2020, 03:24 PM   #6
Acrisius
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
The problem with combinations is that they are highly structured. Every combination is a sequence of specific attacks that target the same locations every time. It is almost always worth the effort to purchase the skill rather than the combination.
can you target with your attacks in the combinations like

Karate kick - spinning kick (skull) - sweep kick

the thing is not only will you have the neg for spinning kick (-6 or -12 with out train by master or weapon master) but you have the -7 for skull or the numbers would be

Karate kick (-12) - spinning kick (skull) (-19) - sweep kick (-12)
This is a example

the only thing is if you set up your combo like this, you have to make a different combo if you want your spinning kick to, say, hit the arm (ie you cant change the combo once its made) as stated in the MA pg 80
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Old 03-19-2020, 03:26 PM   #7
Acrisius
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

but what i wanted to know is what is better admdextiay or dual attack with my combos which i think i got the answer.... what im planning on doing (with GM ok) is extra attack with 2 different combos.
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Old 03-19-2020, 08:51 PM   #8
RyanW
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acrisius View Post
but what i wanted to know is what is better admdextiay or dual attack with my combos which i think i got the answer.... what im planning on doing (with GM ok) is extra attack with 2 different combos.
Dual Weapon Attack doesn't interact with Combinations at all. Dual Weapon Attack is an alternative to Rapid Strike (the option that lies at the heart of combinations), giving slightly less penalty with slightly more restrictions, and the two cannot be used in the same turn. Nor can you perform two combinations in one turn, no matter how many basic attacks you would have.

Any attack with the off hand (whether part of a combination or not) is at -4. Ambidexterity or Off Hand Weapon Training eliminates that.

I just reread the relevant page in Martial Arts and realized I had missed one item: A combination that uses both hands has reduced penalties.
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Old 03-19-2020, 08:59 PM   #9
Acrisius
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Nor can you perform two combinations in one turn, no matter how many basic attacks you would have.
so even with extra attack i can only do one combo a turn, the only way around it would be alter time rate then and as far as i have ambidexterity then its all -what ever and i dont have the -4 from off hand on my attacks....right? i know i may be repeating myself but i want to make sure i have it down for my GM and where to look it up as will.
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Old 03-19-2020, 10:45 PM   #10
Acrisius
 
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Default Re: Dual Weapon/Extra Attack with combos

MA 127

i found what i needed to know for all this on that page, thanks all for help.
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