06-12-2018, 01:13 PM | #31 |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Experience Points
Correct me if I'm wrong, folks, but hasn't Steve done exactly that by capping total Attribute Points at "initial + 8?"
If you're suggesting something different from what he said, I'm not understanding it at all... |
06-12-2018, 02:47 PM | #32 | |||||
Join Date: May 2015
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Re: Experience Points
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06-12-2018, 02:56 PM | #33 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Experience Points
Yes, he has. And for characters that start with 32- points, that's fine. However, does a Lizardman (for example), who starts with 38 points, max out at 46? That seems kinda strong to me. Or does he max out at a lower number - say 42? Or even 40?
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06-12-2018, 03:14 PM | #34 |
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Re: Experience Points
I strongly approve of the new approach to spending EXP, though we should recognize it will mean quite a bit of the old material is inconsistent with the new edition (i.e., lots of NPCs in Tolenkar's Lair violate the 40 point maximum)
I have to disagree regarding the handing out of awards. My experience is that people enjoy the feeling of having earned a specific EXP award through some action or accomplishment, and dislike feeling as though they advance at the arbitrary pleasure of the GM. The system could well be simplified and stream lined from the original, but I would personally prefer that EXP still be linked to tangible accomplishments and events. |
06-12-2018, 04:48 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Experience Points
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I ran the exact analysis you did and concur with your conclusions. And there's no easy fix - I tried to mitigate this by reducing the rate at which attributes get more expensive. No matter what I did, the 16/8/8 character had a 20%+ advantage. At the end of the day, if you use the classic TFT chargen system with an XP system that makes higher attributes more expensive, you will incentivize maxing out one stat at the beginning. Nor do I think conforming character creation with the XP system will produce a desirable result. You'll end up with a system that looks much like GURPS. One that will require much more time to generate a character. And you'll simply trade one set of dubious incentives for another. Here's what such a system might look like (Steve's XP amounts have been divided by 100 and normed to make the totals bearable): Stat - Points 8 – 0 pts 9 – 2 pts 10 – 5 pts 11 – 9 pts 12 – 14 pts 13 – 20 pts 14 – 27 pts 15 – 36 pts 16 – 47 pts 17 – 62 pts 18 – 82 pts +1 - previous points +25 (i.e., 107 for a 19) +2 - previous points +30 (i.e. 137 for a 20) Etc. For simplicity, talents and spells omitted. (You can equate this to Steve's xp system by multiplying my points by 100 and adding 100. However, the numbers are inconveniently huge). The $50 Question: How Many Points do you Start With? Cost of various 32 point characters: A ST11 DX11 IQ10 starting character will cost 9+9+5 = 23 points A ST12 DX10 IQ10 starting character will cost 14+5+5 = 24 points A ST12 DX12 IQ8 starting character will cost 14+14+0 = 28 points A ST13 DX11 IQ8 starting character will cost 20+9+0 = 29 points A ST14 DX10 IQ8 starting character will cost 27+5+0 = 32 points A ST15 DX9 IQ8 starting character will cost 36+2+0 = 38 points A ST16 DX8 IQ8 starting character will cost 47+0+0 = 47 points Indeed, the 47 points spent on the last character would pay for a ST13 DX14 IQ8 character - 35 attribute points. Using the XP system - or any system that assigns higher costs to higher stat level - to buy starting attributes will produce different initial attribute totals. I dunno about this... It may be a better idea to stay with XP costs to raise attributes being based on the total attribute points. Here's a system that would cost 5500 xp for 8 extra attribute points (around the average number of xp that Steve's system would require): Attribute Cost 1st extra point - 100 xp 2nd extra point - 200 xp 3rd extra point - 300 xp 4th extra point - 500 xp 5th extra point - 700 xp 6th extra point - 900 xp 7th extra point - 1200 xp 8th extra point - 1600 xp Endless variations are possible of course. After the third attribute point, talents (at 100-300 xp) start looking attractive instead of increasing attributes. Encouraging de-dumping of dump stats is a dubious endeavor, in my opinion. It invariably boils down to making attributes of 9 and 10 cost less. And that creates the incentive to max out one stat at chargen. A simpler solution is start humans at ST9 DX9 IQ9, with 5 extra points. Or even ST10 DX10 IQ10, with 2 (!) extra points. Of course, I don't care for either one. Last edited by tbeard1999; 06-12-2018 at 04:55 PM. |
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06-12-2018, 05:02 PM | #36 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Experience Points
I'd probably just make the cost of additional stat points depend on your total stat points, without any encouragement to round out 'dump' stats, concern about being hyper specialized, or specific cap on improvement. If dump stats are a problem, rebalance stats so being hyper focused is not all that valuable.
Last edited by Anthony; 06-12-2018 at 05:09 PM. |
06-12-2018, 05:28 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
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Re: Experience Points
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I certainly wouldn’t foul up a game system just to encourage players to take minimum stats of 9 or 10. *Although we never had the Conan the wizard problem, the new mana rules and limiting figures to 40 points pretty much makes Conan the wizard unlikely, I think. |
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06-12-2018, 06:24 PM | #38 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
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Re: Experience Points
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So my workaround the situation in order to help such a character survive TFT combat is to NEVER attack but ALWAYS defend. Now, such a scenario would not work under the old rules, which rewarded XP based upon combat results (ie: one XP for each point of damage inflicted on an opponent, receiving XP equal to the DX of a vanquished opponent). Under the new rules, however, I see such a strategy being potentially successful from how XP is rewarded arbitrarily by the GM, with (for example) 50 to 100 XP awarded per campaign, you could gradually accumulate XP and slowly raise said characters DX and IQ. |
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06-12-2018, 08:16 PM | #39 | |
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Arizona
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Re: Experience Points
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Of course, we don't know that, because Steve didn't include it in our brief glimpse of the new rules, but it would certainly seem logical... |
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06-12-2018, 08:36 PM | #40 | |
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
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Re: Experience Points
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Actually heroes have it worse than that. Wizards only have to pay double for talents, but a whole lot of useful talents they pay 1:1 for. One of the things I found charming about the old TFT was that heroes and wizards were well balanced compared to each other (certainly more than D&D). These new suggested rules do nothing to fix it, and actually make it worse given most wizards now will have a staff with several points of extra fatigue in it. Maybe, all spells would require 200 experience points to get. That would make learning a reality warping spell, more difficult than picking up (say) Swimming. Warm regards, Rick. |
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