Help Me Min/Max a 250-Point Tank

[Stripe]

Greetings!

Would someone be so kind as to help me min/max a 250/-125-point tank combat monster for a contemporary supers game? It will use the Basic Set and Powers. I doubt much else. I don't have Supers.

Ignore the need to declare Disadvantages unless it is central to the concept. Just use the 125 points.

He will probably be an SM 2 humanoid lizard with a very short tail.

He needs to be able to take serious damage and really dish it out with his bare firsts. He'll probably use the Brawling skill.

The concept is pretty plain and similar to Doomsday, The Thing, Hulk, Juggernaut, Darkseid, etc.

We have never done a supers game before, and I'd like a fairly simple, straightforward tank to be one of the first villains.

I figured since it's such a common concept, people on here would be able to easily make some suggestions and point out any mistakes and pitfalls a first-timer might make.

The PC's haven't been made yet, but someone might want to create a psi mind controller. I may give this creature something that will negate such a power that will have to be overcome first, kind of like Jugger's helmet.

Thanks!

[vierasmarius]

The first thing I'd suggest for a boss NPC is don't worry too much about point budget. It's fine to use it as a guideline, and to keep track of cp total for a recurring villain, but it's not hugely important.

If you want him to survive for a while against a team of Supers, one thing that might help is to give him abilities that can isolate team members. For a melee brawling, this could simply be a suite of Grappling moves - after all, if you're holding on to their teammate, it'll be riskier for the other members to attack. Also consider things like Sumo slams and Judo throws for controlling movement around him. If he's got more esoteric powers available, consider area effect abilities like Wall or Obscure, which can be used to divide the party.

He will also need survivability against direct damage, for which Injury Tolerance combined with high HP (and possibly Regen) are ideal. I'd give him raw ST instead of Super-Effort ST, since that will help shore up his HP as well. Throw on high Will, plus maybe Indomitable and Immunity to Mind Control (with the Gadget limitation or other appropriate work-around) so he isn't trivially easy to defeat through mental attacks.

Don't try to make a character who will just be hard to fight. Make one that will be interesting to fight, requiring unusual tactics and teamwork to overcome. It's probably best if you give him too strong a defense rather than too weak - the PCs can always regroup and try again with a different strategy, and if they simply can't beat him you can let slip some hidden weakness (even if you didn't originally include it - the Superhero genre is full of retcons.)

[Walrus]

You may be interested in actual build of Lizard from Marvel Comics. Drop out his tremendous ST, add some traits from other bricks and voila.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Greetings!

Would someone be so kind as to help me min/max a 250/-125-point tank combat monster for a contemporary supers game? It will use the Basic Set and Powers. I doubt much else. I don't have Supers.

Ignore the need to declare Disadvantages unless it is central to the concept. Just use the 125 points.

He will probably be an SM 2 humanoid lizard with a very short tail.

He needs to be able to take serious damage and really dish it out with his bare firsts. He'll probably use the Brawling skill.

The concept is pretty plain and similar to Doomsday, The Thing, Hulk, Juggernaut, Darkseid, etc.

We have never done a supers game before, and I'd like a fairly simple, straightforward tank to be one of the first villains.

I figured since it's such a common concept, people on here would be able to easily make some suggestions and point out any mistakes and pitfalls a first-timer might make.

The PC's haven't been made yet, but someone might want to create a psi mind controller. I may give this creature something that will negate such a power that will have to be overcome first, kind of like Jugger's helmet.

Thanks!

When you say serious damage, can you give an approximate number of dice, both for what he can inflict and what he can withstand? That would help narrow down his options within the point budget, if you want to stick to that as opposed to just building him (he is an NPC, right?) as the kind of threat you want and not worrying about points.

If you stick with the 375 CP effective point budget, he could blow the majority of those points on either straight ST (ST 50 for 320 points with the SM modifier) or the lowest end of ST with Super-Effort (no more than +8/+50 for 304, +9/+70 for 342 would be really pushing it), and still be 'merely' lifting rather than throwing cars and doing on the order of 6-9d before adds from Brawling and such, but even going that high would leave precious little for defenses (besides the HP in the first case), skills, or anything else.

[Dustin]

For his DR, one nice trick is to layer regular DR over Ablative DR. This gives you higher defenses at the start of the fight, and the regular DR has to be penetrated before the Ablative DR can be whittled away by the heroes.

[Stripe]

Let me point out that I didn't notice the super strength thread when I posted this. I was about ready to fall over and I knew I wouldn't be able to write a post before I left in the morning.

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

The first thing I'd suggest for a boss NPC is don't worry too much about point budget.

That's not my style.

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

If he's got more esoteric powers available, consider area effect abilities like Wall or Obscure, which can be used to divide the party.

I'll look into those. Thanks!

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

He will also need survivability against direct damage, for which Injury Tolerance combined with high HP (and possibly Regen) are ideal. I'd give him raw ST instead of Super-Effort ST, since that will help shore up his HP as well. Throw on high Will, plus maybe Indomitable and Immunity to Mind Control (with the Gadget limitation or other appropriate work-around) so he isn't trivially easy to defeat through mental attacks.

Good suggestions. I don't have my books with me and didn't when I wrote this. I'll look into those.

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Don't try to make a character who will just be hard to fight. Make one that will be interesting to fight, requiring unusual tactics and teamwork to overcome.

I get you -- and wholeheartedly agree -- but this is just an opening act. It's probably going to be a time bomb type of scenario. It's going to be, "slug it out with the bruiser, or save the girl." Something like that.

What I'm saying is, this guy is a bulldozer. An armored train. The interest comes not from him, but the scenario of which he's only one small piece of the puzzle.

Originally Posted by Walrus

You may be interested in actual build of Lizard from Marvel Comics. Drop out his tremendous ST, add some traits from other bricks and voila.

Thanks! I'll take a look.

I rember him from that small window of time, age 9-13, when I read comics. Todd McFarlane penciled some four- or five-part series where he was one of the main enemies.

Originally Posted by vitruvian

When you say serious damage, can you give an approximate number of dice, both for what he can inflict and what he can withstand?

Not yet, but I'm fairly certain there will be another brick in the PC group of the same points and I want this NPC villain to be able to duke it out with him.

The PC brick, though, may have other powers too, as player's wont to do, and this NPC is just a brick. So, he may even be "stronger" and "tougher."

Originally Posted by vitruvian

not worrying about points.

He will be built as if he were a PC and the players will probably be able to see his sheet.

Originally Posted by vitruvian

If you stick with the 375 CP effective point budget, he could blow the majority of those points on either straight ST (ST 50 for 320 points with the SM modifier) or the lowest end of ST with Super-Effort (no more than +8/+50 for 304, +9/+70 for 342 would be really pushing it), and still be 'merely' lifting rather than throwing cars and doing on the order of 6-9d before adds from Brawling and such, but even going that high would leave precious little for defenses (besides the HP in the first case), skills, or anything else.

I'll see where this goes. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Dustin

For his DR, one nice trick is to layer regular DR over Ablative DR. This gives you higher defenses at the start of the fight, and the regular DR has to be penetrated before the Ablative DR can be whittled away by the heroes.

Good trick! Thanks a lot!

And, thanks everyone!

[Snaps]

Doomlizard

ST: 0 [-100]
DX: 10
HT: 10
IQ: 8 [-40]

Super Strength +20 (Costs Hit Points 30 per min, -300%; SM 2, -20%; No Fine Manipulators, -40%) [80]
Extreme Regeneration [150]
Extra Hit Points +30 [60]
Damage Reduction 1000 (Costs 8 hit points per min, -80%) [90]
Unkillable 2 [100]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Hard to Subdue +6 [12]
No Visible Damage [1]

Brawling 13 [8]

His Strength costs him 30 hit points per minute to use, plus 1 hit point per actual use, but he regenerates 50 hit points per second so that shouldn't slow him down much.

He punches for about 500d, and can lift 25,000 tons if he needs to, throw a M1 Abrams Tank over 5000 yards, etc. He divides damage by 1000, is tough to knock out, stun, but that doesn't matter a whole lot because he can't be killed.

Not bad for 250...

[Stripe]

Wow. That's a heck of a min/max build, Snaps! XD

Love the name, too!

I don't have Supers, as previously noted -- is all that in Powers?

Thanks!

[Anthony]

There's always everyone's favorite build:

Injury Tolerance (Diffuse) [100]
DR 4, Hardened [x6] (+120%), Absorbtion (one trait: hp) (+80%) [60]

Every time he gets hit for 4+ damage, he gains 2 hit points, up to a max of his base HP +2. No hit doing less than 4 damage can hurt him, and no single target attack can do more than 2 points of damage, and thus he never loses hit points from single target attacks. Not too tough vs area attacks, though.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Doomlizard

ST: 0 [-100]
DX: 10
HT: 10
IQ: 8 [-40]

Super Strength +20 (Costs Hit Points 30 per min, -300%; SM 2, -20%; No Fine Manipulators, -40%) [80]
Extreme Regeneration [150]
Extra Hit Points +30 [60]
Damage Reduction 1000 (Costs 8 hit points per min, -80%) [90]
Unkillable 2 [100]
High Pain Threshold [10]
Hard to Subdue +6 [12]
No Visible Damage [1]

Brawling 13 [8]

His Strength costs him 30 hit points per minute to use, plus 1 hit point per actual use, but he regenerates 50 hit points per second so that shouldn't slow him down much.

He punches for about 500d, and can lift 25,000 tons if he needs to, throw a M1 Abrams Tank over 5000 yards, etc. He divides damage by 1000, is tough to knock out, stun, but that doesn't matter a whole lot because he can't be killed.

Not bad for 250...

Even ignoring:
->Incorrect damage reduction math
->questionable flat cost for super-st converted into a percentage base
->use of super-st when the original posted said he does not have GURPS Supers

It requires 1 FP/combat use of super ST- so he gets to devastate for 7 attacks in combat, then three more with will rolls, then passes out.

Edit: Also- MINIMUM damage with damage reduction is 1; so anything that is just a LOT of separate attacks will still knock this thing down, but he'll regenerate back up in 5 seconds; Still sustained fire from several heavy machine guns will put and keep it down (though that is perhaps just an interesting thing about the build). If the PC's pack birdshot in shotguns they could hilariously defeat this thing when no amount of traditional pounding would work.