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Old 06-14-2021, 07:43 PM   #1
Illusion158
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Maximum Duration Ending Early

I have a player that asked this question and I realized that the wording on it never says what happens. it specifically says

"Available only for switchable, beneficial abilities that you could normally leave “on” indefinitely (e.g., Insubstantiality). Your ability can operate only for a limited length of time. After that, it shuts down without warning and you can’t use it for five minutes."

The wording implies the cooldown between uses only happens if you run out the clock. Is that actually supposed to be the case or is it supposed to just be 5 minutes between uses regardless of whether you use the whole duration?

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers!
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Old 06-15-2021, 12:31 AM   #2
Balor Patch
 
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

A reading that would allow leaving it on for duration - 1 second and then turning it back on the next turn is not reasonable, so it's 5 minutes between every use.
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Old 06-15-2021, 08:51 AM   #3
ericthered
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balor Patch View Post
A reading that would allow leaving it on for duration - 1 second and then turning it back on the next turn is not reasonable, so it's 5 minutes between every use.

Agreed.



I think you have some room as a GM here. If you have a maximum duration of one minute, and they burn 10 seconds, and then ask if they can burn the remaining 50 seconds two minutes later, you might let them if you're feeling generous and the fluff makes sense. But you absolutely don't have to.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:14 AM   #4
Stormcrow
 
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

It makes me think of the Ghostbusters video game from 2009. As you use your proton pack, it heats up. You can quickly vent it anytime. But if it reaches maximum heat, it automatically vents, but this takes longer than if you did it yourself.

This wasn't on the order of five minutes, but it still shows ways in which not reaching maximum might save you time, and that this might be a reasonable thing.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:48 AM   #5
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

I have always assumed you could use such an ability for any amount of time up to the maximum, but regardless there's a five minute down-time whenever its been halted either voluntarily or by expiring.
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Old 06-16-2021, 04:50 PM   #6
Plane
 
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

Quote:
Originally Posted by Balor Patch View Post
A reading that would allow leaving it on for duration - 1 second and then turning it back on the next turn is not reasonable, so it's 5 minutes between every use.
Actually that's a very reasonable way to read it literally, it just begs exploitation if you think that maximum duration can be reset by flipping it on and off since then the five minutes is avoided.

The thing is: it never says this maximum is only applied to one discrete 'on' period, and reset back to max by restarting it, so I think there are grounds allowing you to keep tallying the counter across multiple uses.

For example if you have maximum duration: 12 hours (-5%) then it could opted to only use it one hour at a time, you wouldn't have to wait 5 minutes between uses BUT after twelve uses (reaching the 12 hour total) it would be forced off and you would have to wait those minutes.

You could of course MANAGE the five minutes by waiting specifically for a time you're pretty sure you won't need it to let your ability time out, so as to reset the counter.

It seems like "shuts down without warning" is a pointless thing to say if you have a FIXED maximum duration though. If it always shuts off after the same amount of time, why would you need a warning it's going to shut off, unless perhaps you're bad at keeping track of time?

The 'no warning' label would be more of an issue if there was "variable maximum duration" (ie divide duration by 3, multiple by 1d) because then the lack of warning would make it much harder to manage your mandatory shutoff period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
I have always assumed you could use such an ability for any amount of time up to the maximum, but regardless there's a five minute down-time whenever its been halted either voluntarily or by expiring.
There's no text actually implying that voluntary pre-maximum shutoffs create such a downtime.

The condition which creates that is "after that" with 'that' referring to 'operate only for a limited length of time'.

But since it doesn't say "in one setting" I'd just track the "minutes used" counting down to 0 at which point is the 5 minute recharge.

It would be nice if we had tools to fiddle with that 5 minute period, like making it shorter or longer and having that factor into the cost.

Perhaps somehow using "Requires Recharge" though that jumps from 1 minute to 1 hour and itself could benefit from flexibility
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:41 AM   #7
Edges
 
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donny Brook View Post
I have always assumed you could use such an ability for any amount of time up to the maximum, but regardless there's a five minute down-time whenever its been halted either voluntarily or by expiring.
That's how we've always played it.

It's the most poorly priced limitation, IMO. Making it even more generous will just make it even more unbalanced.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:00 AM   #8
RyanW
 
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

I think the intent is that shutting down starts a five minute cool down, whether you used it for one second or the full duration.

Though if you wanted to change that, I could see three alternatives. Not really sure what fair pricing might be.

A) "Battery" For every minute of cool down, you regain 20% of your maximum duration, regardless of how much you used.

B) "Heat Sink" For every 20% of your duration used, you can't use your power at all for one minute.

C) "Budget" You can reactivate the power at any time to use any unused portion of the maximum duration, but it doesn't regenerate until you go five minutes without using the power.

My first instinct is to just halve the limitation value for any of them, but A is definitely less restrictive than the other two.
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Old 06-17-2021, 04:17 PM   #9
Plane
 
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Default Re: Maximum Duration Ending Early

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
A) "Battery" For every minute of cool down, you regain 20% of your maximum duration, regardless of how much you used.
Feels like we could emulate that with ER and costs FP

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
B) "Heat Sink" For every 20% of your duration used, you can't use your power at all for one minute.
Seems similar to 'requires recharge'.

There is a thing called "Temporary Disadvantage: Shutdown" where you remove access to an advantage instead of gaining a disadvantage...

If we combined that with the "Aftermath" concept (temporary disadvantage applies after ability ends, not during ability use) then that could also do something along those lines.

Problem with Aftermath is you need some way to force it off or it's not much of a limitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
C) "Budget" You can reactivate the power at any time to use any unused portion of the maximum duration, but it doesn't regenerate until you go five minutes without using the power.
Actually more generous than my approach, since I figure you can't take the 5 minutes prematurely when it's convenient, but rather must first exhaust the ability, possibly making the downtime at an inconvenient moment.
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