[Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by chandley

Do you mind including a brief combat write up for the more involved advantages?

For the Call Lightning, it's basically doing up to 6d burn sur to any target in her line of sight, calling it down from the heavens rather than from her, even if the skies are clear. She can only currently do it once an hour.

The Lightning Bolt is the same damage, originating from her with a Range 25/50.

Both reduce the effective DR of metal armor to 1.

For Imbue, can she not charge up normal javelins, spears, swords, etc?

Not yet, though each weapon class is in effect its own specialization of that skill, so her learning Electric Weapon (Thrown Weapon (Spear)) or even Electric Weapon (Thrown Weapon) in the future isn't impossible without needing her dumping more points in Imbue to raise the number of skills it covers. If I was to give her more than three specialties of Electric Weapon, I'd be tempted to give her the wildcard version of it.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

For the Call Lightning, it's basically doing up to 6d burn sur to any target in her line of sight, calling it down from the heavens rather than from her, even if the skies are clear. She can only currently do it once an hour.

The Lightning Bolt is the same damage, originating from her with a Range 25/50.

Both reduce the effective DR of metal armor to 1.

The Cosmic +50% does what? Or is that her power modifier?

Not yet, though each weapon class is in effect its own specialization of that skill, so her learning Electric Weapon (Thrown Weapon (Spear)) or even Electric Weapon (Thrown Weapon) in the future isn't impossible without needing her dumping more points in Imbue to raise the number of skills it covers. If I was to give her more than three specialties of Electric Weapon, I'd be tempted to give her the wildcard version of it.

Gotcha, make sense now.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by chandley

The Cosmic +50% does what? Or is that her power modifier?

That's her power modifier, same as on her defensive abilities. If you compare with other characters, you'll note that I always put the power modifier last (or second-to-last, if an alternate ability), while everything else is in alphabetical order, so placing "Cosmic, +50%" last puts it in the power mod slot.

To be honest, though, I'm not sure how +50% Cosmic attacks and non-Cosmic DR interact. The +300% Cosmic: Bypasses Passive Defenses on an attack is needed to bypass non-Cosmic DR (note that her DR is Cosmic, though, which means that it blocks such Cosmic attacks).

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

That's her power modifier, same as on her defensive abilities. If you compare with other characters, you'll note that I always put the power modifier last (or second-to-last, if an alternate ability), while everything else is in alphabetical order, so placing "Cosmic, +50%" last puts it in the power mod slot.

To be honest, though, I'm not sure how +50% Cosmic attacks and non-Cosmic DR interact. The +300% Cosmic: Bypasses Passive Defenses on an attack is needed to bypass non-Cosmic DR (note that her DR is Cosmic, though, which means that it blocks such Cosmic attacks).

+50% cosmic on an attack would circumvent 'mundane' immunity to that attack.

So if applied to a burning attack it would ignore DR(fire)- as your using 'cosmic hellfire' or similar (But it would not ignore raw DR, armour, or something that covers say, ranged attacks)

If applied to a toxic attack it would ignore immunity to metabolic hazards, as your using the 'essence of decay' or similar.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

That's her power modifier, same as on her defensive abilities. If you compare with other characters, you'll note that I always put the power modifier last (or second-to-last, if an alternate ability), while everything else is in alphabetical order, so placing "Cosmic, +50%" last puts it in the power mod slot.

To be honest, though, I'm not sure how +50% Cosmic attacks and non-Cosmic DR interact. The +300% Cosmic: Bypasses Passive Defenses on an attack is needed to bypass non-Cosmic DR (note that her DR is Cosmic, though, which means that it blocks such Cosmic attacks).

Im not sure I'd go with Starslayer's "ignores limited DR", I think that requires the +300% (possibly limited itself) rather than the +50%.

It might, however, ignore things like Injury Tolerance for the same reason it can bypass resistance or immunity. You might be immune to stun and Injury Tolerance /3, but when she hits you with a lightning bolt, your stunned and hurt as if neither where true, due to her divine power.

Otherwise, I suppose it means non-cosmic leech and neutralize hold no sway over her abilities. That, at the very least, I would think.

Aha. P. 21 of powers makes that last bit RAW.

Originally Posted by Powers p.21

"Cosmic powers add +50% to their
power modifier. This lets their abilities
ignore the things that normally block,
shut down, or nullify wild versions of
those traits, unless those countermeasures are themselves cosmic; e.g., only
a cosmic barrier can block cosmic
Insubstantiality and only cosmic
vision can penetrate cosmic
Invisibility. Furthermore, nothingcan
take away the wielder’s power – his
abilities work on anyworld he visits,
are present inanybody he occupies,
and so on"

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by chandley

Im not sure I'd go with Starslayer's "ignores limited DR", I think that requires the +300% (possibly limited itself) rather than the +50%.

It might, however, ignore things like Injury Tolerance for the same reason it can bypass resistance or immunity. You might be immune to stun and Injury Tolerance /3, but when she hits you with a lightning bolt, your stunned and hurt as if neither where true, due to her divine power.

Otherwise, I suppose it means non-cosmic leech and neutralize hold no sway over her abilities. That, at the very least, I would think.

I am not sure I would ever let something ignore injury tolerance, that is a very expensive ability that largely can be replicated by just taking gobs of hit points, or wearing high tech body armour and I would've not want to encourage weirdness like that (IE I want to play superman but because I don't want to be dropped by cosmic attacks I build him as a TL 11 sm-1 gadgeteer wearing a power armour suit that makes him look like a man instead of going there obvious route of injury tolerance)

Also I am not sure how much I like superman resisting a hail of machine gun fire and then dropping from a spear to the face unless that spear can also punch through a tank.

On retrospect I do agree with your thought on not allowing it to bypass limited dr.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by starslayer

(IE I want to play superman but because I don't want to be dropped by cosmic attacks I build him as a TL 11 sm-1 gadgeteer wearing a power armour suit that makes him look like a man instead of going there obvious route of injury tolerance)

You do know your proposed work around just changes his issues, right? That is how it usually works out in GURPS; something can always trump what you can do unless the setting specifically doesn't allow for it and the GM realizes this (if the GM doesn't, you end up either breaking the setting for worrying for now reason XD).

+50% Cosmic just gets the benefits of being safe from things like Neutralize unless it is also Cosmic. It is very expensive for not much benefit... except if it is being used correctly, it should actually be relevant. Unless this version of he Marvel Universe lacks the power dampening technology that seemed widespread by the late 80s and early 90s, anytime you get into trouble with a first world government or a serious organization, a super will be subjected to technology that neutralizes powers. Facilities that house or also house those with mystical abilities will be similarly prepared to suppress those as well. I didn't see them ever used on characters that would qualify for the +50% Cosmic Modifier...

...which brings up a quesiton for Phantasm: are you sure you want to jump straight to a +50% Cosmic Modifier for this character or her kin? As impressive as entities like Zeus are, they aren't at the top for Marvel Comics. At least if I recall correctly. Maybe I've got that wrong or you do indeed mean for him to be at the top. Powers p.32 discusses tiered approaches to powers, and for all I know we've discussed this already in the thread and I am just forgetting/overlooking it. ^^'

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Otaku

+50% Cosmic just gets the benefits of being safe from things like Neutralize unless it is also Cosmic. It is very expensive for not much benefit... except if it is being used correctly, it should actually be relevant. Unless this version of the Marvel Universe lacks the power dampening technology that seemed widespread by the late 80s and early 90s, anytime you get into trouble with a first world government or a serious organization, a super will be subjected to technology that neutralizes powers. Facilities that house or also house those with mystical abilities will be similarly prepared to suppress those as well. I didn't see them ever used on characters that would qualify for the +50% Cosmic Modifier...

Places like the Vault exist in this timeline, with power dampeners for those with Super, Mutant, Psionic, and Mutant Psionic, plus pharmacological treatments for those with abilities that have Biological, Chemical, and Passive Biological on them. I'm not sure whether countermeasures for Magical are known or effective.

That said, how does Neutralize and Static work against "wild" abilities compared to those that are part of a Cosmic-powered Power?

Originally Posted by Otaku

...which brings up a question for Phantasm: are you sure you want to jump straight to a +50% Cosmic Modifier for this character or her kin? As impressive as entities like Zeus are, they aren't at the top for Marvel Comics. At least if I recall correctly. Maybe I've got that wrong or you do indeed mean for him to be at the top. Powers p.32 discusses tiered approaches to powers, and for all I know we've discussed this already in the thread and I am just forgetting/overlooking it. ^^'

I'm not entirely sure about that myself, to be honest. Cosmic entities like Eternity, Death, Master Order, Lord Chaos, the In-Betweener, etc. are probably not going to get stats (Death herself didn't earlier); more physical cosmic entities like Galactus (and Thanos?) probably will, should I do them. How the cosmic entities scale is always a crapshoot.

That said, of the Olympians and Asgardians, I only see Zeus and Odin, and possibly Hades and Hela, as having Cosmic on their stuff. Most of the abilities of the gods are either Magical or "wild". Nyssa's a rarity in that her defensive abilities, at least, are Cosmic; I waffled on whether her lightning should be. Also, note that her lightning does not have Elemental on it; rubber won't be of much use against her. ;)

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Otaku

+50% Cosmic just gets the benefits of being safe from things like Neutralize unless it is also Cosmic. It is very expensive for not much benefit... except if it is being used correctly, it should actually be relevant. Unless this version of he Marvel Universe lacks the power dampening technology that seemed widespread by the late 80s and early 90s, anytime you get into trouble with a first world government or a serious organization, a super will be subjected to technology that neutralizes powers. Facilities that house or also house those with mystical abilities will be similarly prepared to suppress those as well. I didn't see them ever used on characters that would qualify for the +50% Cosmic Modifier...

There are quite a few story lines about marvel's gods being stripped or otherwise deprived of their powers. Odin was imprisoned and rendered powerless with magic handcuffs. Thor has his might "halved" by Balder.

Even with Cosmic enhancements, I'm not sure you're safe from the GM building a story around whatever they want to accomplish. At best it's plot guidance so that you're less likely to get crippled like other characters.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Phantasm

That said, how does Neutralize and Static work against "wild" abilities compared to those that are part of a Cosmic-powered Power?

I'll have to get back to you on that, but for the sake of clarity do you mean for GURPS or for a setting like the typical Marvel Universe?

Originally Posted by Phantasm

I'm not entirely sure about that myself, to be honest. Cosmic entities like Eternity, Death, Master Order, Lord Chaos, the In-Betweener, etc. are probably not going to get stats (Death herself didn't earlier); more physical cosmic entities like Galactus (and Thanos?) probably will, should I do them. How the cosmic entities scale is always a crapshoot.

Okay.

Originally Posted by naloth

There are quite a few story lines about marvel's gods being stripped or otherwise deprived of their powers. Odin was imprisoned and rendered powerless with magic handcuffs. Thor has his might "halved" by Balder.

Even with Cosmic enhancements, I'm not sure you're safe from the GM building a story around whatever they want to accomplish. At best it's plot guidance so that you're less likely to get crippled like other characters.

Some of that may be a tiered approach to Cosmic; you have what you might think of as a "True" Cosmic at the top, with other power modifiers below it. If the setting call for it, you may even have the somewhat confusing task of renaming a few because Cosmic Being A really is at the top with nothing that outdoes it, while Cosmic Being B can only be outdone by A, etc. down the line.

Even without getting fancy like that though, Cosmic can beat Cosmic, so if (for example) Odin was imprisoned and rendered helpless by magic handcuffs, were said handcuffs built as a Gadget they would have Cosmic on their nullifying effect, to cancel out the protective benefits of Cosmic on Odin's traits.

Speaking of which (and this begins to answer some of what Phantasm asked after I brought it up), I probably wouldn't have "full" Cosmic for guys like Zeus. This is where the tiers really ought to come in. Based on what we know of the Marvel Universe, whomever has the Infinity Gauntlet (and the individual gems themselves, perhaps) will gain traits with the "true" Cosmic modifier. From there tick things off at 5 or 10% points until you get to the base level of traits. Try to come up with appropriate terms because you'll want to be able to mix and match as various other modifiers should probably apply.

I am wondering if certain groups like Asgardians should have their own Power Modifier. Maybe that is just because I am half asleep, though; it just seems helpful for them to have a narrower focus but I think I am too tired to make that coherent. Sorry. ^^'