Boxing vs. Sport (Boxing)

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

I was under the impression that a lot of "professional boxing" is heavily choreographed, so they would actually have Boxing Art.

I must also admit though, that until this thread, I thought the Combat Art/Sport skill only applied to Melee Weapon skills, and not to unarmed melee skills.

I'd say "boxing art" is probably what you see in boxing films, even if actors go and spend a couple of weeks in a gym.

(but no professional boxing is not choreographed, well not legally anyway)

[DouglasCole]

Part of potential confusion here is that the skills are named specifically but cover much broader swaths of territory mechanically.

Boxing isn't "in the ring." Or rather, it's more than that.

* It is "trained punching," but not kicking.
* It lets you hit more strongly, following the same bonus progression as Karate and Wrestling for boosts (DX+2 gives you the highest bonus)
* Multiple parries, one per hand, at no penalty, but . . .
* Parrying kicks are at -2, weapons at -3 if they're swung at you. No penalty for thrusting weapons.
* Boxing gives a retreat bonus
* Boxing suffers no additional penalties for being armored

It's hard to say WHAT this is. It's certainly not mapped 1:1 with what we call boxing today, nor the matches described in (say) the Aubrey-Maturin series of books, which were definitely far bloodier than today's stuff, but still with a limited set of guidelines.

[Donny Brook]

Is there a difference between Hopscotch and Sport (Hopscotch)?

Would anyone outside of the sport ever train in just punching but not other aspects of fighting?

[Adversary]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Part of potential confusion here is that the skills are named specifically but cover much broader swaths of territory mechanically.

Boxing isn't "in the ring." Or rather, it's more than that.

* It is "trained punching," but not kicking.
* It lets you hit more strongly, following the same bonus progression as Karate and Wrestling for boosts (DX+2 gives you the highest bonus)
* Multiple parries, one per hand, at no penalty, but . . .
* Parrying kicks are at -2, weapons at -3 if they're swung at you. No penalty for thrusting weapons.
* Boxing gives a retreat bonus
* Boxing suffers no additional penalties for being armored

It's hard to say WHAT this is. It's certainly not mapped 1:1 with what we call boxing today, nor the matches described in (say) the Aubrey-Maturin series of books, which were definitely far bloodier than today's stuff, but still with a limited set of guidelines.

One thing Boxing could represent is the classic two-fisted fighting style of the pulp/men's adventure magazine hero. More scientific than mere brawling, but the goal is to end the fight with a strong right hand or left hook to the jaw. Only bad guys and women kick, grab, and scratch.

Also the fighting style of The Thing from the Fantastic Four. While the Hulk probably has brawling, Ben Grimm grew up fighting on, what was it, Yancy Street? He doesn't kick much but knows how to throw technical punches (he also has wrestling I'd say.) (Been a long time since I read the comics btw so I could be off.)

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Is there a difference between Hopscotch and Sport (Hopscotch)?

Hopscotch gets a lot of nasty trained by master optional perks in my write up!

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

I'd say "boxing art" is probably what you see in boxing films, even if actors go and spend a couple of weeks in a gym.

Ah, no, that's Stage Combat.

There really isn't much of Boxing Art as a thing, at least not in familiar Western traditions. The Art forms are things like doing solitary tai chi for exercise or meditation. I suppose that shadow boxing would be an art, if you did it entirely for its own sake rather than as an adjunct to fighting people in the ring or at dockside.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Ah, no, that's Stage Combat.

There really isn't much of Boxing Art as a thing, at least not in familiar Western traditions. The Art forms are things like doing solitary tai chi for exercise or meditation. I suppose that shadow boxing would be an art, if you did it entirely for its own sake rather than as an adjunct to fighting people in the ring or at dockside.

Fair enough, (i'd forgotten stage combat TBH) I guess there isn't really an artistic side to boxing, which make sense it is a "science" after all!

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by whswhs

There really isn't much of Boxing Art as a thing, at least not in familiar Western traditions. The Art forms are things like doing solitary tai chi for exercise or meditation.

Kata training is pretty clearly a form of Karate Art, when taken beyond the "shadow boxing to learn muscle memory" stage. I can't say I've ever seen anything similar in Western boxing.

If you're getting scored on accuracy and beauty of form, it's Art. If you're getting scored on hits or knockdowns, it's Sport. If you're getting scored on being alive and conscious at the end, it's the core skill.

[Lord Azagthoth]

I've broken my brains about these names too and finally replaced them.

Boxing with Punching
Judo with Grappling & Throwing
Karate with Striking
Sumo with Grappling & Pushing
Wrestling with Grappling & Pinning

I then could the above names for Arts/Sports/styles and my players who wanted to be a master in a certain kind of martial arts other than one of the standard used names were more satisfied (a player wanted to play a Kung Fu master during the Japanese oppression in the late thirties and he was opposed in taking the Karate skill).

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by DangerousThing

Kromm had some interesting posts where he suggested that it was only worth a perk to have the differences between the combat version and the sport version and the art version.

And yes, all melee skills, inlcuding hand to hand, have combat, sport, and art versions.

Kromm's rule would allow you to have the Combat skill plus a perk familiarity, such as Sport Familiarity (Boxing)

The way I've been doing it lately is to call each Art or Sport form a Unique Technique of the combat skill, defaulting to combat skill and with no cap. So no points, you can't do it at all (you just lose any contests on your bad form), 1 point (the Unique Technique), roll against your skill, each further point gets you a +1, which is enough cheaper than increasing actual combat skill it actually has encouraged a few players to invest a small number of points. Not very many, but still more than I was ever going to see otherwise.

This makes the path for somebody who only cares about the art 1 point in the combat skill (here's some basics/dangerous stuff you should never do), 1 point in the Unique Technique, 2nd point in the Combat skill (which also raises the art, and is as good as they ever get in actual combat), rest of the points in the art.