Claw-claw-bite and armor

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

What Ulz and TBC said -- there's a huge difference between living horn growing out of an animal's body, and that same horn, long-dead and cured. The latter has a (0.5) divisor, the former does not.

Maybe it should though, I've been thinking (0.5) for living horn/bone and (0.2) for long-dead and cured...

[vicky_molokh]

Again, this would result in an attacks with the same net energy dealing less damage with a sharp edge. A bond club and a bond blade of the same mass swung at the same speed . . .

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Again, this would result in an attacks with the same net energy dealing less damage with a sharp edge. A bond club and a bond blade of the same mass swung at the same speed . . .

No, less injury getting through the armor, but the same damage.

[Kuroshima]

Personally, I think that the issue here is that if you take a bone ax and a bone mace of the same weight. Adding an edge (that concentrates force on a smaller surface) is going to greatly reduce damage.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Maybe it should though, I've been thinking (0.5) for living horn/bone and (0.2) for long-dead and cured...

I'm not sure why. The reduced damage is because the material can't hold an edge very well. This applies equally regardless of whether it is live or dead. The main difference is its toughness/brittleness. Dead bone breaks more easily than live bone/horn/ivory,etc.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I'm not sure why. The reduced damage is because the material can't hold an edge very well. This applies equally regardless of whether it is live or dead. The main difference is its toughness/brittleness. Dead bone breaks more easily than live bone/horn/ivory,etc.

I must be thinking of really old brittle stuff, not the recently extracted bone/horn.

The (0.5) vs armor would also extend to punches and kicks, not just to claws/bites.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

I must be thinking of really old brittle stuff, not the recently extracted bone/horn.

The (0.5) vs armor would also extend to punches and kicks, not just to claws/bites.

So a small amount of armor would go a long way against unarmed striking making grappling that much more important?

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

The (0.5) vs armor would also extend to punches and kicks, not just to claws/bites.

Why? A punch with an effective mass of 2lbs delivering X joules and a 2-pound club delivering X joules, both assuming an impact area comparable to knuckle size shouldn't have vastly different structural damage (injury) capabilities.

It also leads to silliness that a 1-damage attack with a punch (or claw, or tooth) never does injury. And humans often roll 1d-2 to 1d-4 on bites, resulting in 1 point of damage.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Why? A punch with an effective mass of 2lbs delivering X joules and a 2-pound club delivering X joules, both assuming an impact area comparable to knuckle size shouldn't have vastly different structural damage (injury) capabilities.

Because flesh isn't delivering all that energy, when it hits something hard it squishes back, damaging itself, or spreading itself over the surface that it hits.

All you have to do to see the difference is punch or kick someone wearing a little bit of padding vs no padding, to see the huge difference.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

It also leads to silliness that a 1-damage attack with a punch (or claw, or tooth) never does injury. And humans often roll 1d-2 to 1d-4 on bites, resulting in 1 point of damage.

That's not silliness, that's pretty realistic, minor bruises and scratches aren't deadly 1 HP injuries, your cat shouldn't be able to take you out of action in seconds.

This (0.5) modification wouldn't solve all the issues with the huge out of proportion ST sw dmg tables, but it'd mitigate some of the silliness of people punching through armor with th ST.

[Bruno]

Flesh is squishy yes, but I don't attack people with my boobs, nor my rather excessively padded hips. Nor do martial artists other than folk/movie heroes who have learned the dreaded iron buttock technique.

You have to be REALLY fat for there to be more than a thin layer of thin skin and some tendons over the knuckles, knees, and elbows - and the heel and blade of the foot are covered in some terrifyingly tough skin, not "squishy" skin.

Adding a 0.5mm layer of leather over the 2 lb mace doesn't divide its damage in half.