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Old 04-14-2023, 09:33 AM   #481
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Mr. Orgel: "It is often practiced by radical communities seeking to rewrite or ignore human nature, or to build cheap disposable armies."

"Of course, that's the concordance view. Panogan cloning was conducted in a responsible manner, to quickly fill up a garden world and improve everyone's standard of living. That's why the concordance didn't immediately isolate us."
"Well I guess it helps with growing a population, but it's still about twenty years of growth and education. Maybe ten-fifteen if you're evil. I don't see how it helps with living standards or the other two. And lots of people would have twins, or probably more. That'd be weird."

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
"But fanatics among the clones exaggerate their efforts into a crusade to destroy cloning and clones entirely"
"But cloning is like a transitory step, right? There's no need for cloning after the first generation, they can get on with natural growth after that. It's not like clones get sterilized, right?"

I suppose there's a good chance that Julian's going to be corrected about how cloning works soon. Assuming it's somewhat close to how bioroids in THS work...
"Oh. So, they're like, um, things made of flesh and bone?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
"But fanatics among the clones exaggerate their efforts into a crusade to destroy cloning and clones entirely, and they cherry pick statements from concordance activists as though those people are in control of the government."
"Well surely something going on if a few fanatics can rile people up to open warfare. The Troubles at its worst saw improvised mortars, not missiles without apparent weaknesses."

Last edited by TGLS; 04-14-2023 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 04-17-2023, 11:13 AM   #482
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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Originally Posted by TGLS View Post
"Well I guess it helps with growing a population, but it's still about twenty years of growth and education. Maybe ten-fifteen if you're evil. I don't see how it helps with living standards or the other two. And lots of people would have twins, or probably more. That'd be weird."
"Yeah, the clones are different enough without the abuses. The living standards are a result of having a large educated population: we can do things other worlds can't. Or at least, couldn't, if they didn't have the concordance and FTL"

Quote:
"But cloning is like a transitory step, right? There's no need for cloning after the first generation, they can get on with natural growth after that. It's not like clones get sterilized, right?"
"More or less. It's taken more than a single generation, because of those costs you mentioned. And its been long enough that people have gotten attached. They've never done things the natural way, and they want to see their way of life carry on."


Quote:
I suppose there's a good chance that Julian's going to be corrected about how cloning works soon. Assuming it's somewhat close to how bioroids in THS work...
"Oh. So, they're like, um, things made of flesh and bone?"
Nah, its essentially the mass use of exowombs in a coordinated manner.

Quote:
"Well surely something going on if a few fanatics can rile people up to open warfare. The Troubles at its worst saw improvised mortars, not missiles without apparent weaknesses."
"Obviously there are more than just a few fanatics. And the clone view that Panogos belongs to them and not everyone"
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Old 04-17-2023, 11:36 AM   #483
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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"Yeah, the clones are different enough without the abuses. The living standards are a result of having a large educated population: we can do things other worlds can't. Or at least, couldn't, if they didn't have the concordance and FTL"
I think I'm beginning to understand, "So, this is like a world of billions and billions, while other worlds are like only millions?"

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
"More or less. It's taken more than a single generation, because of those costs you mentioned. And its been long enough that people have gotten attached. They've never done things the natural way, and they want to see their way of life carry on."
I find the sentiment easy enough to comprehend. Life inside... The idea must make them feel gross. I bite my knuckle and try to get my mind off the topic.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
"Obviously there are more than just a few fanatics. And the clone view that Panogos belongs to them and not everyone"
"Well that doesn't sound good. Is that really a popular opinion?"

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Nah, its essentially the mass use of exowombs in a coordinated manner.
Yeah, I see it now.
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Old 04-18-2023, 08:10 AM   #484
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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I think I'm beginning to understand, "So, this is like a world of billions and billions, while other worlds are like only millions?"
Mr. Orgel: "1100 million. Not quite billions and billions... but enough"


Quote:
"Well that doesn't sound good. Is that really a popular opinion?"
Mr. Orgel: "Apparently."
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Old 04-18-2023, 08:20 AM   #485
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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Mr. Orgel: "1100 million. Not quite billions and billions... but enough"
"Oh, so a lot less than Earth"

I suppose that might draw a remark, if so:
"... Is it not like eight billion anymore?"

And then I guess we continue to where we're headed.
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Old 04-19-2023, 09:06 AM   #486
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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"Oh, so a lot less than Earth"
"Than earth? Well of course. No one has as many people as Sol."


Quote:
I suppose that might draw a remark, if so:
"... Is it not like eight billion anymore?"
"Earth, or Sol system? Sol has around 25 billion people. I couldn't tell you how many of them live on earth without checking though. A good chunk, for sure"


After getting Julian some clothes, they head to the place where Julian will be staying. Mr. Orgel says there will only be a few others at the placement house, and they shouldn't have to stay there long at all before being placed somewhere. He pauses and thinks


"You will probably end up in a technical creche: are you ok with that?"
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Old 04-19-2023, 09:19 AM   #487
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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"Earth, or Sol system? Sol has around 25 billion people. I couldn't tell you how many of them live on earth without checking though. A good chunk, for sure"
"Sounds crowded."

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
After getting Julian some clothes, they head to the place where Julian will be staying. Mr. Orgel says there will only be a few others at the placement house, and they shouldn't have to stay there long at all before being placed somewhere.
"So like a couple days, a couple months, or...?"

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He pauses and thinks

"You will probably end up in a technical creche: are you ok with that?"
"What does that even mean?"

Depending on the time of day I suppose I'll either try to get to know the other kids or probably head to bed.
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Old 04-20-2023, 09:37 AM   #488
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"Sounds crowded."
Mr. Orgel: "It is."*

Quote:
"So like a couple days, a couple months, or...?"
"A few weeks. Perhaps as little as one week, or as many as five."

Quote:
"What does that even mean?"
"Creches raise children without parents on Panogos. They were designed to raise clones. Most have specific professions they train for."

OCC: I hadn't even thought about how Panogos handles orphans when I came up with the place, but its certainly got a more robust system than many others.

Quote:
Depending on the time of day I suppose I'll either try to get to know the other kids or probably head to bed.
Julian and Mr. Orgel are most the way back when Julian hears that scream in his head again. Its much more urgent, much louder, and much more painful... Roll against will-2 or pass out.

*Figuring out Mr. Orgel's opinions is an interesting exercise. He thinks he's just an ordinary reasonable guy, but he's got his biases and blind-spots.
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Old 04-20-2023, 10:45 AM   #489
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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"A few weeks. Perhaps as little as one week, or as many as five."
Better than 14 years I guess.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
"Creches raise children without parents on Panogos. They were designed to raise clones. Most have specific professions they train for."
I only learned this after the fact but if it weren't for the "technical" qualifier Julian would probably be more confused, wondering how long children are left with nannies in this world.

"I guess? It's not like I'd be forced to take a particular job afterwards."

On the other hand I might end up having to sweep up for the next four years.

"I dunno if I might be able to cut it though."


Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
OCC: I hadn't even thought about how Panogos handles orphans when I came up with the place, but its certainly got a more robust system than many others.
Strangely it might be able to do it better than most, given they seem to have a functional society, unlike say Romania who had issues with their orphanages.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Julian and Mr. Orgel are most the way back when Julian hears that scream in his head again. Its much more urgent, much louder, and much more painful... Roll against will-2 or pass out.
Quote:
[140] 23-04-21 06:21:33 CEST

Will roll for passing out

3d6 <= 10
6 + 2 + 3 = 11 ... failure
I guess Julian may pass out right away, and not get to say his piece.

I clutch my head, and let out a pained gasp. "Get it out! Get it out!" Then my vision whites out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
*Figuring out Mr. Orgel's opinions is an interesting exercise. He thinks he's just an ordinary reasonable guy, but he's got his biases and blind-spots.
Admittedly Julian probably hasn't really grokked how much is likely to have changed in the last thousand years, and is lazily imagining three times as many people around, instead of imagining massive orbital complexes and terraformed planets which may very well lower the density.

Though he's still not sure about the clones.

Last edited by TGLS; 04-20-2023 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 04-21-2023, 11:22 AM   #490
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Default Re: (IC) Lost in Dreams (Julian)

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I only learned this after the fact but if it weren't for the "technical" qualifier Julian would probably be more confused, wondering how long children are left with nannies in this world.
Yeah, I'm intentionally misusing the word. There seems to have been a period in the 80s or 90s when it was thought that was how kids were going to be raised in the future. The term shows up in a few video games.

Quote:
"I guess? It's not like I'd be forced to take a particular job afterwards."
"Not forced, no. You will be pushed towards the job you train for though."
Quote:
"I dunno if I might be able to cut it though."
"They'll find something you're good at. One way or another.
Quote:
Strangely it might be able to do it better than most, given they seem to have a functional society, unlike say Romania who had issues with their orphanages.
Maybe. There might just be side effects they're still working through...
Quote:
I guess Julian may pass out right away, and not get to say his piece.

I clutch my head, and let out a pained gasp. "Get it out! Get it out!" Then my vision whites out.
He only gets out a single gasp.

When he comes to, he's in what looks like an apartment living room, without any windows. The floor is slick but somehow soft. He's on the couch.

A Woman with full flowing robes and jet black hair in a pony tail says "he's waking up. You wanted to talk to him first, Royal?" She rubs something on his upper arm... it stings there for some reason, but the salve feels good.

A short but powerfully built man with dark skin and hair, wearing the athletic style of clothes stands nearby, keeping an eye on Julian.

A woman strides towards him, posture perfect, and addresses him standing:

"Julian. My name is Royal. I apologize for how we had to meet, but I think you can help us. We need an Astropic. Preferably one with no ties to the concordance. And you appear to be the perfect candidate. We can pay you enough to never have to worry about that system again. All you will have to do is be our intermediary with the starpus. Does that sound interesting to you?"
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