Fencing skill in 3ed and 4ed

[Dangerious P. Cats]

One thing I've been wondering is what was the rationalisation between changing the 3ed fencing skill into the 3 Fencing skills in 4th edition.

[vicky_molokh]

Exactly which of the changes are you curious about?

[tg_ambro]

Hasn't all this been posted before?

If not, then I just had one an incredible sense of Deja Vu.

EDIT: Sorry for not really contributing.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

One thing I've been wondering is what was the rationalisation between changing the 3ed fencing skill into the 3 Fencing skills in 4th edition.

Because they were three very different weapons. Back in 3e, many people presented some very convincing arguments that learning (e.g.) how to fight with a rapier gave you very little "built-in" ability to fight with a saber.

Note that this is not a "3e to 4e" change. Like so many of the things people perceive as a "4e" change, it actually happened in a 3e supplement. Specifically, Martial Arts (3e) split Fencing into three non-optional specialties (i.e., separate skills): Fencing (Saber), Fencing (Smallsword), and Fencing (Rapier). For the most part, gamers applauded the change, and it was not reverted for the new edition.

[copeab]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Because they were three very different weapons. Back in 3e, many people presented some very convincing arguments that learning (e.g.) how to fight with a rapier gave you very little "built-in" ability to fight with a saber.

In a campaign where the primary weapon is a fencing weapon, it makes sense. Otherwise, easier to just leave it one skill.

Note that this is not a "3e to 4e" change. Like so many of the things people perceive as a "4e" change, it actually happened in a 3e supplement. Specifically, Martial Arts (3e) split Fencing into three non-optional specialties (i.e., separate skills): Fencing (Saber), Fencing (Smallsword), and Fencing (Rapier). For the most part, gamers applauded the change, and it was not reverted for the new edition.

And the seeds for this were planted in the very first edition of Swashbucklers.

[PK]

Originally Posted by copeab

In a campaign where the primary weapon is a fencing weapon, it makes sense. Otherwise, easier to just leave it one skill.

That's a very reasonable and easy-to-implement house rule, and one that I'd imagine is fairly common among those who started with 3e.

And the seeds for this were planted in the very first edition of Swashbucklers.

True. Actually, most of the fencing stuff from MA started in Swashbucklers.

[vicky_molokh]

The problem with Saber vs. Rapier is that the two are highly imbalanced in terms of scope. Rapier covers true rapier, and Jianns, and probably some other stuff, while Saber is just for that, sabers. And it looks weird when there's such a perk as Weapon Adaptation.