[Powers] - Required Disads and Power Modifiers

[Genesis]

I'm running a game with Lovecraftian overtones (along with everyone else!) and one of my players is taking a sort of "Eldritch Attunement" power, which will include some combination of appropriately limited Intuition, Serendipity, Oracle, etc. He doesn't know he's got powers: he gets hunches and has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. We've hit on the idea of including a Weirdness Magnet aspect to his power -- he can sense -slash- has a connection to the Weird elements of the setting, but it cuts both ways and they're aware of him too.

I offered him two options:
First, I suggested adding a -5% element to the power modifier representing a nuisance effect: his powers can sometimes attract the wrong sort of attention. It wouldn't be as onerous as a full Weirdness Magnet, but it'd add some flavor.

Second, I suggested taking W-M as a disad and adding a Required Disadvantage element to the power mod.

My player liked the more onerous version of W-M, and so we started writing up the power according to version 2. I noticed that it gives a serious point break, though. Powers suggests -1% per point of the required disadvantage, which is -15% if the powers require W-M. But unlike all the examples in Powers, where the required disad is a self-imposed thing, and the loss of powers is a real issue if you break your Vow, W-M isn't likely to stop working against the character outside of extraordinary circumstances. In short, it seems like too big a point break on the advantages for a limitation (the powers stop working if WM doesn't apply) that won't come up often.

So: if his powers stop working when W-M is mitigated (perhaps by magical warding, or if he decides to buy it off somehow - to a switchable disad maybe), what's that worth? He's already got -5% to the power mod for supernatural countermeasures unrelated to the fact that he Attracts The Wrong Sort Of Attention -- giving him another -15% on top of that seems really excessive. Alternatively, is there a better way of making the onerous side effects of W-M an integral part of the Power?

Genesis

P.S. I added a dash to W-M because I realized I'm not talking about Weapon Master...

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Genesis

I'm running a game with Lovecraftian overtones (along with everyone else!) and one of my players is taking a sort of "Eldritch Attunement" power, which will include some combination of appropriately limited Intuition, Serendipity, Oracle, etc. He doesn't know he's got powers: he gets hunches and has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. We've hit on the idea of including a Weirdness Magnet aspect to his power -- he can sense -slash- has a connection to the Weird elements of the setting, but it cuts both ways and they're aware of him too.

I offered him two options:
First, I suggested adding a -5% element to the power modifier representing a nuisance effect: his powers can sometimes attract the wrong sort of attention. It wouldn't be as onerous as a full Weirdness Magnet, but it'd add some flavor.

Second, I suggested taking W-M as a disad and adding a Required Disadvantage element to the power mod.

My player liked the more onerous version of W-M, and so we started writing up the power according to version 2. I noticed that it gives a serious point break, though. Powers suggests -1% per point of the required disadvantage, which is -15% if the powers require W-M. But unlike all the examples in Powers, where the required disad is a self-imposed thing, and the loss of powers is a real issue if you break your Vow, W-M isn't likely to stop working against the character outside of extraordinary circumstances. In short, it seems like too big a point break on the advantages for a limitation (the powers stop working if WM doesn't apply) that won't come up often.

So: if his powers stop working when W-M is mitigated (perhaps by magical warding, or if he decides to buy it off somehow - to a switchable disad maybe), what's that worth? He's already got -5% to the power mod for supernatural countermeasures unrelated to the fact that he Attracts The Wrong Sort Of Attention -- giving him another -15% on top of that seems really excessive. Alternatively, is there a better way of making the onerous side effects of W-M an integral part of the Power?

Genesis

P.S. I added a dash to W-M because I realized I'm not talking about Weapon Master...

Rather than make it a Required Disadvantage, as in a self-imposed one that can lose you the power if you don't behave as required, I'd suggest making Weirdness Magnet a Temporary Disadvantage on it. Of course, you'll never save more than 12 pts total from this, so it's easiest to put it as such in the Disadvantages part of the sheet (once total points in basic advantages get up to 80, anyway) rather than count it as part of the power modifier per se... but it's more accurate to the concept.

[the_matrix_walker]

I concur. A Required Disadvantage should either involve a code or vow that can be broken (which makes you loose your powers), or a required behavior that results in damage to HP or fatigue (Which makes you loose your powers until you recover from the damage). I would extend this to other disadvantages as long as there is some kind of effect that would cost the use of the powers.

I would certainly allow Weirdness Magnet to apply to the Required Disadvantage Limitation, if that meant that when any actual weirdness showed up, you lost your powers until it went away.

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I concur. A Required Disadvantage should either involve a code or vow that can be broken (which makes you loose your powers), or a required behavior that results in damage to HP or fatigue (Which makes you loose your powers until you recover from the damage). I would extend this to other disadvantages as long as there is some kind of effect that would cost the use of the powers.

I would certainly allow Weirdness Magnet to apply to the Required Disadvantage Limitation, if that meant that when any actual weirdness showed up, you lost your powers until it went away.

No, losing your powers when the weirdness actually shows up doesn't really fit either Required or Temporary Disadvantage. For Required Disadvantage, in order to have your powers you must go along with the requirements of Weirdness Magnet, which doesn't really fit unless there's some way of suppressing or turning it off. For Temporary Disadvantage, you suffer the effects of Weirdness Magnet whenever you use the powers, which seems more like the intent. There is the other sort of Temporary Disadvantage, where the disadvantage being triggered shuts the ability off, as for Electrical with abilities defined as cyberware, but so far as I can tell Weirdness Magnet by default is in effect all the time - something weird should show up in your life every day or session - so that doesn't quite work.

You could kind of split the difference, I guess, by taking Weirdness Magnet with a Mitigator, then making that the Required Disadvantage. In that case, I'd rule that if you actually made use of the Mitigator in order to not suffer the effects of Weirdness Magnet, that would be when you lost access to the powers.

[Langy]

I have a character with Required Disadvantage on a few non-self-imposed mental disadvantages. These disadvantages are ones that could potentially be fixed, though, and the Required Disadvantage bit is what limits them so that if they are ever fixed, his powers disappear.

EDIT: The power the limitation is on is called 'The Power of Madness', while the disadvantages are some that make him insane, like Paranoia and Phantom Voices.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

No, losing your powers when the weirdness actually shows up doesn't really fit either Required or Temporary Disadvantage. For Required Disadvantage, in order to have your powers you must go along with the requirements of Weirdness Magnet, which doesn't really fit unless there's some way of suppressing or turning it off. For Temporary Disadvantage, you suffer the effects of Weirdness Magnet whenever you use the powers, which seems more like the intent. There is the other sort of Temporary Disadvantage, where the disadvantage being triggered shuts the ability off, as for Electrical with abilities defined as cyberware, but so far as I can tell Weirdness Magnet by default is in effect all the time - something weird should show up in your life every day or session - so that doesn't quite work.

You could kind of split the difference, I guess, by taking Weirdness Magnet with a Mitigator, then making that the Required Disadvantage. In that case, I'd rule that if you actually made use of the Mitigator in order to not suffer the effects of Weirdness Magnet, that would be when you lost access to the powers.

I know that wouldn't work by RAW, I'm familiar with the way it works. I was just offering what my tongue in cheek response would be to "I want to take weirdness magnet as a required disadvantage."

[Genesis]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

You could kind of split the difference, I guess, by taking Weirdness Magnet with a Mitigator, then making that the Required Disadvantage. In that case, I'd rule that if you actually made use of the Mitigator in order to not suffer the effects of Weirdness Magnet, that would be when you lost access to the powers.

This is what I had originally conceived - "if you're wearing your tinfoil hat the monsters can't see you, but you can't see them either." The problem is that the mitigator on Weirdness Magnet would be some supernatural phlebotinum that either doesn't exist yet or is sufficiently rare to be unknown - the character certainly doesn't know about it as of character creation. Is it fair to give him a big point break on the advantages when it's unlikely that they'll ever be "off," at least in the context of this particular adventure?

I think I'll probably house rule that he should take W-M at full [-15], and give him a -10% power mod for supernatural countermeasures and nuisance effects. It's not as generous as -20% for including the required disad, but it maintains some link. It's a Lovecraft-inspired game, anyway. If he's got W-M he'll probably get eaten by a shadow monster quickly enough that it's not unbalancing.