supers: nine options

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

DC Heroes/MEGS.
Mutants and Masterminds 3e.

I co-ran a DCH campaign a long time ago, and I thought mechanically it mostly worked well, though even in four-color reality, the chance of getting a second dice roll seemed to produce over the top results. But it was a very good simulation of the DC universe specifically; it has too many nuances that weren't general enough.

I've looked at M&M, and played in a campaign of it years ago, and I just don't care for its mechanics.

But yes, you're right about D20. I don't recall the details of M&M well enough to be sure about its exponentiality.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

But yes, you're right about D20. I don't recall the details of M&M well enough to be sure about its exponentiality.

2e, which is what from what you've said is what you had, was a mix. 3e runs entirely off of its table of ranks and measures.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

2e, which is what from what you've said is what you had, was a mix. 3e runs entirely off of its table of ranks and measures.

That's a point in its favor, but there was enough else I didn't like about M&M to be a disincentive to investing in another edition of it. Though I do enjoy reading some of its setting books and historical material.

[Kallatari]

Just curious, have you looked into the relatively new Marvel Multiverse RPG. It's supposed to be fairly streamlined and simple to play.

While I admit to having bought the book - mainly because I wanted to see the "stats" of the main Marvel characters - I unfortunately didn't particularly like the rules, and therefore never bothered to dive into the details. I found it too streamlined for my tastes. For example, they don't even have a Strength stat. Instead, you have a "size" (not an actual stat), which, going upwards are: Average (adult human), Big (car, Hulk, Abomination, etc.), Huge (Truck), Gigantic (Airliner), Titanic (Cruise Ship), Gargantuan (skyscraper). As to what you can carry, it's just "You can lift anything of your own size or smaller", plus some rules for slams, pushing, throwing, etc. There's a "Mighty" power that lets you lift something at one size higher per level of Mighty. So Spiderman and Captain America are Average sized with Mighty 1 (so they can pick up something Big), while Hulk is Big size with Mighty 4 (so he can lift something Gargantuan). So, as you see, they wanted to take all the math away and just "size-guestimate" the carrying/lifting thing. That's great if you want a very streamlined game, but not if you like nuances or granularity.

The rules do have a "Rank" which sets the overall power level. You would want either Rank 1 (rookie just got powers) or Rank 2 (street level protector).

Anyway, I'm not particularly recommending this system, as I don't particularly like it. I'd suggest GURPS or M&M 3E, which are my go to systems. But I know not everyone likes the same thing, so I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the Marvel Multiverse RPG system, and then you can make your own assessment.

So this is just a friendly FYI (...either that or I'm subconsciously trying to share my pain of having actually bought a copy of the Marvel Multiverse RPG system)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Kallatari

Just curious, have you looked into the relatively new Marvel Multiverse RPG. It's supposed to be fairly streamlined and simple to play.

While I admit to having bought the book - mainly because I wanted to see the "stats" of the main Marvel characters - I unfortunately didn't particularly like the rules, and therefore never bothered to dive into the details. I found it too streamlined for my tastes. For example, they don't even have a Strength stat. Instead, you have a "size" (not an actual stat), which, going upwards are: Average (adult human), Big (car, Hulk, Abomination, etc.), Huge (Truck), Gigantic (Airliner), Titanic (Cruise Ship), Gargantuan (skyscraper). As to what you can carry, it's just "You can lift anything of your own size or smaller", plus some rules for slams, pushing, throwing, etc. There's a "Mighty" power that lets you lift something at one size higher per level of Mighty. So Spiderman and Captain America are Average sized with Mighty 1 (so they can pick up something Big), while Hulk is Big size with Mighty 4 (so he can lift something Gargantuan). So, as you see, they wanted to take all the math away and just "size-guestimate" the carrying/lifting thing. That's great if you want a very streamlined game, but not if you like nuances or granularity.

The rules do have a "Rank" which sets the overall power level. You would want either Rank 1 (rookie just got powers) or Rank 2 (street level protector).

Anyway, I'm not particularly recommending this system, as I don't particularly like it. I'd suggest GURPS or M&M 3E, which are my go to systems. But I know not everyone likes the same thing, so I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the Marvel Multiverse RPG system, and then you can make your own assessment.

So this is just a friendly FYI (...either that or I'm subconsciously trying to share my pain of having actually bought a copy of the Marvel Multiverse RPG system)

I've played in a campaign of Marvel Super Heroes, and I've run a campaign of Marvel Heroic Roleplaying, both of which also had a strong tendency to minimize calculations and streamline play; it seems as if that's a general pattern of Marvel adaptations. It's not what I'm looking for, though, even in a game with a strong narrative emphasis. I was vaguely aware that there was a new Marvel adaptation, but hadn't felt the impulse to acquire it and check it out. And for this hypothetical campaign I'm just not looking to use any rules system that's a direct adaptation of a specific published universe, whether DC or Marvel or Wild Cards; they always seem to carry too much baggage. Your cautionary note about the mechanics of Marvel Multiverse just strengthens that feeling, I have to say.

There's also the less rational reluctance to look at a game with "multiverse" in the title, since I think that bringing the multiverse into the Marvel Cinematic Universe has just ruined it as far as my having any impulse to see anything more.

[J. Edward Tremlett]

Originally Posted by Kallatari

So this is just a friendly FYI (...either that or I'm subconsciously trying to share my pain of having actually bought a copy of the Marvel Multiverse RPG system)

thank you for the heads-up. FASERIP forever!

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by J. Edward Tremlett

thank you for the heads-up. FASERIP forever!

Even FASERIP was a better system for "describing" heroes than for using them in games.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Even FASERIP was a better system for "describing" heroes than for using them in games.

Agreed. I found FASERIP to be extremely clunky in-play.

Personally, I'd use GURPS or BESM, but YMMV on those for various reasons.

[Chris Goodwin]

It's not in the Basic Rulebook. On one hand, I could add it to my house rules. But on the other, calling that sort of movement "Flight limited to a surface" strikes me as a horrible kludge for getting around the failure to design ground movement properly in the first place. Straining at gnats and swallowing camels, you know?

This is a holdover from 3rd edition Champions and prior, when the Noncombat multiplier for Flight was computed differently from the other movement powers, incidentally making it significantly faster. Nowadays it uses the same noncombat values as the other movement powers, so the only reason you'd want Flight limited to a surface would be if you wanted to run up and down walls or across water.

A partial fix could be to apply some of the elements of Flight to Running. Let it have increased noncombat multipliers; let Reduced Endurance apply to the base 12 m as well as purchased Running.

Movement costs 1 END per 10 Active Points. Buying additional Noncombat multiples increases the Active Points of the movement power, so in that respect you're paying more END for your movement. Noncombat movement uses the same amount of END as combat movement. So if you've bought 20m of Flight with two additional Noncombat multiples, (and assuming no Advantages) for 30 Active Points, you'd spend 3 END to move 20m in combat, or 40 or 80 meters noncombat.

Edited to add: 6th edition characters will probably need 25 or more additional points than their earlier edition counterparts with the same stats. In 6th edition, Figured Characteristics are no longer figured from Primary Characteristics but are bought up from base values.