supers: nine options

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by corwyn

Wouldn't reducing end on running be more efficient, or have they changed that in 6e?

I can see reducing END on Running that you buy as a power. You'd probably want to take the +1/2 version that eliminates END cost entirely. For +3m Running, you'd pay 5 points instead of 3, which is pretty trivial. But then you're still paying END to use the default 12m of running. I don't see any rule that lets you do away with that.

A secondary point is that you're still going to be paying END to use your strength, and it seems you ought to pay it for using your running. But multiplying your strength by 4 only means adding 10 points to it, which is 1 or 2 END per phase. Multiplying running by 4 seems likely to cost a lot more, because STR is exponential, but SPD is linear, and so is Running.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I've been looking further at the sixth edition of Hero System, and I see problems with its treatment of speed.
.

I've never seen the 6th ed rules but from earlier editions I am confident that the ED cost for using ground movement is not multiplied when the base move is multiplied.

It could just be that you don't do this because it breaks the mechnics but I am confident that's how it's supposed to work.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I've never seen the 6th ed rules but from earlier editions I am confident that the ED cost for using ground movement is not multiplied when the base move is multiplied.

It could just be that you don't do this because it breaks the mechnics but I am confident that's how it's supposed to work.

Okay, I found that in my copy of 4/e. Thanks!

[Irish Wolf]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I've been looking further at the sixth edition of Hero System, and I see problems with its treatment of speed.

In 3rd ed (the one I'm familiar with), they said that for a speedster what you wanted to do was buy Flight, with the limitation "Limited To Surface". That lets you run at hundreds of kph, run up buildings, and all that fun Flash stuff. Does 6th ed work with that?

[Anthony]

Honestly, I'm not familiar of a reasonably detailed supers system that handles superspeed well, mostly because the way it's actually handled in genre is complete nonsense and it tends to break the turn/initiative system. Mutants and Masterminds is a lot more generous about movement but the result is stuff like "I run two miles, hit you, and run another two miles; good luck responding to that".

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Honestly, I'm not familiar of a reasonably detailed supers system that handles superspeed well, mostly because the way it's actually handled in genre is complete nonsense and it tends to break the turn/initiative system. Mutants and Masterminds is a lot more generous about movement but the result is stuff like "I run two miles, hit you, and run another two miles; good luck responding to that".

M&M 3e doesn't work like that, at least not in vanilla. You can't split your move action like that. There may be power constructs that allow you to cheat that but friends don't let friends break the game. Never been a problem in my games.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by corwyn

M&M 3e doesn't work like that, at least not in vanilla. You can't split your move action like that.

You can if you put one point into move-by attack.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Irish Wolf

In 3rd ed (the one I'm familiar with), they said that for a speedster what you wanted to do was buy Flight, with the limitation "Limited To Surface". That lets you run at hundreds of kph, run up buildings, and all that fun Flash stuff. Does 6th ed work with that?

It's not in the Basic Rulebook. On one hand, I could add it to my house rules. But on the other, calling that sort of movement "Flight limited to a surface" strikes me as a horrible kludge for getting around the failure to design ground movement properly in the first place. Straining at gnats and swallowing camels, you know?

A partial fix could be to apply some of the elements of Flight to Running. Let it have increased noncombat multipliers; let Reduced Endurance apply to the base 12 m as well as purchased Running. But even with that, there's still the incongruity that for about 100 points I could buy the ability to run 180 mph, which is about 20 times the human base; or I could buy the ability to lift a million times as much. The former falls far short of what even a modest speedster like Quicksilver can do; the latter exceeds the capabilities of almost any published superstrong character short of the Silver Age Superman or maybe a really angry Hulk. Never mind the physics; it doesn't seem to do the source material properly.

I could decide to put up with it; it only needs a couple more doublings to be pushing at the sound barrier, which may be enough. I'd just really prefer a system where all superpowers are exponential, or one where all superpowers are polynomial, instead of a weird hybrid. I don't know of any system that does that—maybe Absolute Power/Big Eyes Small Mouth?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I could decide to put up with it; it only needs a couple more doublings to be pushing at the sound barrier, which may be enough. I'd just really prefer a system where all superpowers are exponential, or one where all superpowers are polynomial, instead of a weird hybrid. I don't know of any system that does that—maybe Absolute Power/Big Eyes Small Mouth?

DC Heroes/MEGS.
Mutants and Masterminds 3e.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can if you put one point into move-by attack.

Yeah, I forgot about that. At least there''s a Ready action, though I don't like the change in initiative.