[DF] Dwarven Cleric and ancestor worship?

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

I didn't think to cover ancestor worship in DF 7, because I tend to think of it as a completely different thing to generic dungeon fantasy polytheism, but I can see the logic. Of course, each cleric might be assumed to focus on a specific ancestor who was noted for mastery of healing arts, or of stone, or of defending the community, or of warfare, or whatever, then pick your cleric type appropriately, but that feels like a bit of a cop-out. Brewing up your own spell lists should be more interesting, if more like work.

One possibility would be to base your clerical powers on the Reincarnation Power from Thaumatology (pp. 206-207). It's mostly fairly low-key stuff, but I've found Modular Abilities (Skills Only) useful enough to cause a little GM surly muttering.

Arguably fits better with Shamanism - RuneQuest combines the two fairly freely with shamen working with regular spirits and ancestor (and other) ghosts interchangably.

[mburr0003]

While it does lead to a more shamanism flavor, I played a Dwarven Holy Warrior/Cleric for a bit whose belief system was founded in the Celestial Bureaucracy style of ancestor worship.

So instead of getting spells or abilities straight from the ancestors (in some cases yes, that's how it worked) it was more of a "pray to specific (or general) ancestor(s) to intercede with the Celestial Bureaucracy to get things done (for spells or abilities)".

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

While it does lead to a more shamanism flavor, I played a Dwarven Holy Warrior/Cleric for a bit whose belief system was founded in the Celestial Bureaucracy style of ancestor worship.

So instead of getting spells or abilities straight from the ancestors (in some cases yes, that's how it worked) it was more of a "pray to specific (or general) ancestor(s) to intercede with the Celestial Bureaucracy to get things done (for spells or abilities)".

That's pretty cool - and presumably prolonged veneration of specific ancestors, plus prestige earned by their descendants etc. helps them get promoted in the Celestial Bureaucracy and thus in turn have more powers at their disposal.

(and can I just say that the Chinese idea of exorcising a ghost by getting an arrest warrant issued for it is extremely "based").

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Of course, each cleric might be assumed to focus on a specific ancestor who was noted for mastery of healing arts, or of stone, or of defending the community, or of warfare, or whatever...

Who shall henceforth be known as Kromm.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Brewing up your own spell lists should be more interesting, if more like work.

A GMs work is never done... but yes, a tailored list is a better option.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

One possibility would be to base your clerical powers on the Reincarnation Power from Thaumatology (pp. 206-207). It's mostly fairly low-key stuff, but I've found Modular Abilities (Skills Only) useful enough to cause a little GM surly muttering.

Ta muchly.

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

That's pretty cool...

Agreed.

Originally Posted by The Colonel

...and can I just say that the Chinese idea of exorcising a ghost by getting an arrest warrant issued for it is extremely "based".

As is this.

At the moment, the planned McGuffin in my upcoming Dwarf Fortress-y Dungeon Fantasy game is a spiritual demarcation dispute between a human necromancer and a goblin shaman that believes that the dead should stay dead.

This, and the Celestial Bureaucracy idea should fit very nicely into my campaign rough draft.
Ta muchly.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

At the moment, the planned McGuffin in my upcoming Dwarf Fortress-y Dungeon Fantasy game...

Do the Dwarves have a "beard sense"? Please tell me they have beard sense...

/Dwarf Fortress in-joke

[benz72]

One set of concepts to look at is interrelationships between culture, longevity, magic system for clerics and belief systems.
A culture of long lived beings who aspire to skills mastery might find the idea of borrowing skills from the honored dead to be central to their sense of continuity, or a cheap hack that only those desperate enough to take shortcuts would countenance.
A long lived people who spend many decades or even a few centuries transferring knowledge from generation to generation might have a different perspective on the utility of 'asking great grandpa how he used to do things' than humans would.
If dwarven magic is tied to craftsmanship then perhaps all the cool techniques to do amazing things are the purview of ancestors with the Craft Secret perk who are called upon to loan that skill to a worthy descendant for the duration of a project.

EDIT
Thinking about this a little more, what would happen to the pace of cultural change if a society depended upon cranky ancestors for magic? Perhaps this is a fundamental philosophical difference between Dwarven and Gnomish artificers? Dwarves loog to the past for deeper meaning and understanding while gnomes tend to experiment with the latest thing)

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by benz72

One set of concepts to look at is interrelationships between culture, longevity, magic system for clerics and belief systems.
...
<snip>
...
If dwarven magic is tied to craftsmanship then perhaps all the cool techniques to do amazing things are the purview of ancestors with the Craft Secret perk who are called upon to loan that skill to a worthy descendant for the duration of a project.

EDIT
Thinking about this a little more, what would happen to the pace of cultural change if a society depended upon cranky ancestors for magic?

Nice. Very nice. Grumpy ancestral spirits are the best spirits.

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

Do the Dwarves have a "beard sense"? Please tell me they have beard sense...

/Dwarf Fortress in-joke

Is dwarf, is beardsense.
Otherwise they're just comical fat mini humans.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

A GMs work is never done... but yes, a tailored list is a better option.

Notably more work then just saying there's a Dwarven pantheon and you can worship the dwarf of war or whatever.

Having done this (published even) I can tell you the spell list is probably the easy part. The Holy Might list is a bit harder, and modifying the template can be harder still.