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Old 09-19-2021, 08:36 AM   #11
RobW
 
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Default Re: Extra Dice VS Negative Modifiers

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Phil, the problem is that we have very little guidance for what die totals make for a break weapon result on 6d6 and none for 3d12..
True, my reading is that the Melee rules on weapon drops and breakage are supplanted by the rules on p9, which ask the GM to use their imagination
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Old 09-19-2021, 08:39 AM   #12
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Default Re: Extra Dice VS Negative Modifiers

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Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post
Let rolling 5 or less on any number of dice always be automatic success. Let rolling 16 or more on any number of dice always be automatic failure. .
The problem I have with this approach is that attacks against a defending weapon master are to be made on 6D. The chance of rolling 16 or greater*on 6d6 is 90%. (And of course chance of rolling 5 or less is 0)
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: Extra Dice VS Negative Modifiers

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Originally Posted by GamerApe View Post
When using ITL, how do you decide whether a difficult task means more dice to roll against an ability, or assign a negative modifier to a 3 die roll? There are specific cases mentioned in the rules, but what is the core reasoning? If the task itself is difficult, do you add more dice? If an untrained person would have more of a struggle, add more dice? If a trained character lacks the necessary tools, then you put on a negative modifier?
I would like to be consistent running my games, and I'd like to hear from folks how they decide a situation deserves either extra dice or a modifier. Thanks!
Let's compare the % chance of success for an average DX 10 bloke and a DX 15 star as we add dice. We'll go to 6d as that is a realistic possibility (eg attacking a defending weapons master)
Code:
Dice DX10 DX15
   2   92   97
   3   50   95
   4   16   55
   5    6   31
   6    6   10
There's not much granularity here. 4D separates the star from the average bloke, but 5d and especially 6d are very difficult. And many including myself have noted problems about interpreting critical success/failure with other than 3 dice.

BY contrast, modifiers give the GM smoother control and simple interpretation of critical success/failure. The exact numbers aren't important, just the fact that change is more gradual eg for the DX 10 bloke, and a DX 15 star is a good chance to make it in all cases.
Code:
Mod DX10 DX15
 +4   95   95
 +2   74   95
 +1   63   95
  0   50   95
 -1   38   91
 -2   26   84
 -4    9   63
TL;DR
I would say, if you just want to quickly make a task more or less impossible -- don't even think about it PC -- than increase the dice required to 5d or 6d. If you want to separate the stars from the blokes, or make the less skilled PCs think about risk/reward, use 4d or a modifier.
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:41 AM   #14
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Extra Dice VS Negative Modifiers

Without classes TFT makes "lanes" by restricting the talents that a single character can master. (Though this is much less restrictive in Legacy than first edition.)

Greatly reducing the risks of "impossible for the untrained" tasks for those characters who do have the talents is a good thing. Ergo mods for situational aspects (blindness, bad footing) and dice for the underlying situation and talents.

Are they much less likely to blow themselves up due to their training, even in total darkness? That's a dice vs mods distinction.
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Old 09-19-2021, 12:47 PM   #15
acmegamer
 
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Default Re: Extra Dice VS Negative Modifiers

Seems like in my opinion the best mechanic to use is the +4 to -4 modifier versus extra dice after seeing the percentages per Robw.
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Old 09-19-2021, 03:40 PM   #16
Peter von Kleinsmid
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Default Re: Extra Dice VS Negative Modifiers

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Originally Posted by RobW View Post
True, my reading is that the Melee rules on weapon drops and breakage are supplanted by the rules on p9, which ask the GM to use their imagination
No, the rules on ITL p. 9 are about non-attack rolls of various types, where GM rulings may be needed to get appropriate choices of when there should be automatic or critical results, as appropriate for what the situation is.

The rules for making attacks with other than 3 dice are at ITL p. 117 (Defending and Dodging), which only covers 4-die rolls, but you can see the suggested pattern if you want to extend it to higher die rolls (or you could use the technique I mentioned above, if you don't want it to get more extreme than that).
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