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Old 12-05-2023, 01:50 PM   #11
Kallatari
 
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Let's consider it this way. The default Social Stigma (Excommunicated) is functionally Reputation -3 (All The Time; Small Class) [-5]. DFRPG's version is arguably more akin to Reputation -3 (All The Time; Almost Everyone) [-10]. Often, GURPS treats -10 as a good benchmark for "this is impossible" - here, that would be Reputation -10 (All The Time; Almost Everyone) [-33] if it applied to all Clerical spells. Only applying the Healing spells arguably drops it down to the same Small Class as default SS (Excom) uses, for [-16]... but then it applying to all forms of supernatural healing (not just Clerical healing) might justify boosting it back up a bit, perhaps to Large Class, which would be [-25]. The fair value may well fall somewhere in between... which brings us right back to the same [-20] as Partial Unhealing.
Thanks. That's a good mathematical way to get to a "fair" point value. I had been leaning toward the Unhealing (Partial) from the get go, but this certainly gives me much more confidence in the -20 value.
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Old 12-05-2023, 02:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
Thanks. That's a good mathematical way to get to a "fair" point value. I had been leaning toward the Unhealing (Partial) from the get go, but this certainly gives me much more confidence in the -20 value.
Honestly, starting that out I certainly didn't expect it to wind up basically right back at [-20], but the fact it did similarly makes me feel that's probably a roughly fair value. Of course, it still has to be appropriate for the campaign - I'd be disinclined to allow it in something combat heavy where the characters are expected to be reliant on supernatural healing, for example (although I could see it potentially working well for a support character who purposefully avoids getting into the thick of combat).
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Old 12-05-2023, 06:02 PM   #13
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

In my own games I use a Unhealing with a -50% modifier. Unhealing (Partial) means you can heal naturally if someone is taking care of you and using supernatural healing or you can steal HP to heal yourself. Unhealing (Full) means only supernatural healing only.
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Old 12-05-2023, 06:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

Not being able to take traits such as Regeneration is just a Taboo Trait [0]. Immunity to external healing is weird... Unhealing doesn't actually forbid it.

In practice I'm not sure what this is meant to represent. The most likely characters to be immune to supernatural healing are just straight up immune to supernatural effects. That's just (non-switchable) static.
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Old 12-05-2023, 08:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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In practice I'm not sure what this is meant to represent. The most likely characters to be immune to supernatural healing are just straight up immune to supernatural effects. That's just (non-switchable) static.
While I can't speak for the OP, I've had players ask about a trait like this in my DFRPG games. (Indeed, I asked about this recently on discord.) Usually it is something similar to a Divine Curse or Social Stigma (Excommunicated). Typically has something to do with them or their ancestors having ticked off the holy gods. Excommunicated is a great option, but I have had players who want to just amp it up to "clerical healing just doesn't work on me."
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Old 12-05-2023, 09:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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In practice I'm not sure what this is meant to represent. The most likely characters to be immune to supernatural healing are just straight up immune to supernatural effects. That's just (non-switchable) static.
Well, if you must know, it for my Infinite Worlds ISWAT campaign, which is practically a supers game (one immortal daughter of Zeus, a seraphim from In Nomine, a Cyrano Jedi, a gadgeteer gunslinger, and a rather powerful priest using Divine Favor.

One of the character has recently been detained (captured by IST when the party attempted to steal Dr. Pathogen from under their nose, which was a topic of a whole other thread.) The rest of the team grabbed Dr. Pathogen and returned t Homeline to stop the weird Gotha-Plague spreading across the world, thus saving billions ranked as higher priority than saving their teammate. There's already a side story underway to get that character out ("IST needs you for a special mission"), but the character will likely miss the next two missions (notably, stopping the plague also requires a magical item from another world). So the player is making a backup character for a couple of missions.

The player came up with a super soldier using an experimental serum (which actually fits nicely into something else I'm planning). However, they also wanted a few disadvantages from injuries... One Eye, Bad Voice, Missing Finger, etc. The serum is also slowly killing him (Terminally Ill).

I flagged those disadvantages really wouldn't work as the moment this character joins the party, the priest will heal all of them, restoring him to full health (yes, he can do that easily)... and while not guaranteed might even be able to take care of the Terminally Ill. So if he took them as disadvantages, I wouldn't give points for them as they wouldn't last long enough to be an issue. Also, there are known NPC healers in ISWAT who could also likely heal him (e.g., a psychic healer). So he'd even have to explain how he they weren't healed even before joining the party.

The player wanted those disadvantages, and didn't want them healed, as they made a good part of the background, effect on personality, etc.. So asked, what if they couldn't be supernaturally healed? What if the serum that gave him his powers but is also killing him prevents those type of healing? We discussed how that might work, and it kind of came down to it would probably stop all healing. Thus the origin of this post.

Ultimately, since I wasn't sure how I'd cost it or how well such a character would play in the campaign, we came to a decision that rather than stopping all supernatural healing, it would only stop the healing of a wound that's been in the body too long... if it lasts a week or so, then it can't be healed supernaturally, but otherwise it could be healed. Rather than making that a specific disadvantage, we just put it as a -0% "cannot be healed" limitation to the disadvantages... We made it a 0% mod as, in my games, if a starting disadvantage is removed by any means you have to pay the points back, otherwise the remove doesn't work or doesn't stick. If I think it will get removed too easily, I just don't let them get points for it as a starting character. Anyway, the player's promise not to spend points on to buy them off effectively makes those disadvantage injuries unhealable, which gives us the effect we wanted without the other hassles.

But we talked enough about No Supernatural Healing that I still wanted to price it out for future reference.

Hope that helps put the whole thing into context.
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Old 12-05-2023, 09:34 PM   #17
Kallatari
 
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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Originally Posted by Dalin View Post
While I can't speak for the OP, I've had players ask about a trait like this in my DFRPG games. (Indeed, I asked about this recently on discord.) Usually it is something similar to a Divine Curse or Social Stigma (Excommunicated). Typically has something to do with them or their ancestors having ticked off the holy gods. Excommunicated is a great option, but I have had players who want to just amp it up to "clerical healing just doesn't work on me."
Concur. I can see a bunch of situations and campaigns where there can be plausible reasons as to why someone can't be healed through supernatural means.

I provided my specific context in my previous post just because, but it shouldn't affect how such a trait would be costed out or defined.
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Old 12-06-2023, 09:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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I completely agree that something like "Can't use a sword" is a -0 disadvantage/feature (one could argue a -1 roleplaying quirk, but by raw -0) as being unable to put points into a Broadsword skill is no different than a person who simply chooses not to put points into it. There's no difference in the end effect, and thus there shouldn't be a cost difference between those two characters. Just like "Can't Swim" just means no points in Swimming skill. Both will drown just as easily.
In the spirit of discussion and creative solutions, I'd say there is a way to handle even those things, without them becoming a point crock*. Skip the rest of this post if even the concept of such a thing seems too asinine or like too much trouble to ever both.

The GM and players** are agreeing "Yes, make this worth the points." and signing off on the added "work" required for both the GM and the players. The GM is going to design the world, or setting, or adventure(s) so that this seeming non-issue actually does come up in an amount appropriate to the value assigned the Disadvantage. It could be a running gag or an ironic destiny.

Back on topic, that's why restrictions preventing supernatural healing can function as an actual Disadvantage; just make sure the hassle caused by being unable to utilize such healing is worth the CP involved.

*Or whatever the term is
**The whole group needs to be okay with this.
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Old 12-06-2023, 10:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

Frankly, in settings like Dungeon Fantasy where the PCs are expected to have cheap and easy access to healing methods that work much faster than natural healing, "No Natural Healing" feels a bit like a point crock. "Oh, woe is me, I can't spend weeks in bed recovering, but must instead wait fifteen minutes while the cleric recovers his FP to cast a healing spell."
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Old 12-06-2023, 11:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

There are several traits with price adjustments based on a scale of how common or uncommon the relevant condition is in the setting.

After you choose the base trait, it can be adjusted to any setting by adapting one of these scales.
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