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Old 11-22-2023, 12:40 PM   #41
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
There are lots of American films and TV shows about corrupt or brutal police and paramilitary forces (eg. CIA) from the 1980s to today, and those characters get assigned weapons which communicate "government"

Even cop shows tend to have a subplot about the corrupt vice cop, or the beat cop who plants weapons and drugs on suspects NCIS has has plots about soldiers selling weapons to gangs, and Gibbs retiring after a three-letter agency orders one drone strike too many.
Just last night on Hawaii Five O I watched a rerun about a stolen drone armed with a machine gun and used in a terrorist action (which was actually a rather flamboyant and incompetent attempt to cover the extraction of a spy). The team then rehijacked the drone and rammed the bad guy's plane to prevent the extraction which is just as flamboyant a method of counterespionage as the original but there is a lot of flamboyance going round in action shows.

So in that show there was a warbot with a gun that served both good guys and bad guys.
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Old 11-22-2023, 01:09 PM   #42
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(why would foot soldiers use scimitars?)
IIRC, the goblins (who are basically just orcs by another name) in The Hobbit were largely cavalry, preferring to ride on wargs as war-mounts. Perhaps the orcs in LotR followed the same tradition, but were stuck on foot for various reasons (Saruman's Uruk-hai, on the other hand, had no tradition of warg-riding and favored broad, straight swords).

Interestingly, note that many of the weapons changed hands several times. Orcrist, Glamdring, and the knife that went on to be named Sting were taken by Thorin and Company from the lair of a group of trolls, despite having originally belonged to elves (and then going on to be wielded by a dwarf, a Maia, and three Hobbits, respectively). The blades the Hobbits of LoTR wielded (prior to Frodo losing his and Bilbo replacing it with Sting) were taken by Tom Bombadil from barrow-wights close to the Shire, despite having originally been made by Numenor.

But, yeah, in real life you have all manner of people using all manner of weaponry. Of course, for a cinematic setting (which Action is typically going to be), having distinct good guys and bad guys using iconic weapons for their "alignment" can be appropriate.
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Old 11-22-2023, 02:49 PM   #43
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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IIRC, the goblins (who are basically just orcs by another name) in The Hobbit were largely cavalry, preferring to ride on wargs as war-mounts. Perhaps the orcs in LotR followed the same tradition, but were stuck on foot for various reasons (Saruman's Uruk-hai, on the other hand, had no tradition of warg-riding and favored broad, straight swords).

Interestingly, note that many of the weapons changed hands several times. Orcrist, Glamdring, and the knife that went on to be named Sting were taken by Thorin and Company from the lair of a group of trolls, despite having originally belonged to elves (and then going on to be wielded by a dwarf, a Maia, and three Hobbits, respectively). The blades the Hobbits of LoTR wielded (prior to Frodo losing his and Bilbo replacing it with Sting) were taken by Tom Bombadil from barrow-wights close to the Shire, despite having originally been made by Numenor.

But, yeah, in real life you have all manner of people using all manner of weaponry. Of course, for a cinematic setting (which Action is typically going to be), having distinct good guys and bad guys using iconic weapons for their "alignment" can be appropriate.
In Blood and Treasure Season 2 the bad guys (led by a Genghis Khan wannabe) often used Medieval weapons which would be like Putin using muskets because Peter the Great did.
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Old 11-22-2023, 02:54 PM   #44
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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Interestingly, note that many of the weapons changed hands several times.

I think changed sides several times might be more what you were shooting for.

Since IIRC Orcrist and Glamdring at least were forged in Gondolin. That means forged in the First Age. They 'enter the story' in the Third Age. Therefore they are at least thousands (and more like tens of thousands) of years old.

They may have changed sides several times. However they likely changed hands hundreds it not thousands of times. Other than Valar, Maiar, Elves and Ents all of Illuvatar's children age and are mortal.
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Old 11-22-2023, 02:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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I think changed sides several times might be more what you were shooting for.

Since IIRC Orcrist and Glamdring at least were forged in Gondolin. That means forged in the First Age. They 'enter the story' in the Third Age. Therefore they are at least thousands and more like tens of thousands of years old.

They may have changed sides several times. However they likely changed hands hundreds it not thousands of times. Other than Valar, Maiar, Elves and Ents all of Illuvatar's children age and are mortal.
Actually they didn't. It's obvious an orc cannot wield Glamdring, like he could a human sword. It's enchanted. They were just trophies.
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Old 11-22-2023, 03:03 PM   #46
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They may have changed sides several times. However they likely changed hands hundreds it not thousands of times. Other than Valar, Maiar, Elves and Ents all of Illuvatar's children age and are mortal.
Evidence on that is inconsistent for orcs; the Silmarillion claims they're corrupted elves, though Tolkien wasn't particularly dedicated to that as a plot point. I don't think there's any concrete evidence for them being either mortal or immortal.
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Old 11-22-2023, 03:18 PM   #47
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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Actually they didn't. It's obvious an orc cannot wield Glamdring, like he could a human sword. It's enchanted. They were just trophies.
I never specified orcs. Sauron had Easterlings, Southrons, Corrupted Numanorians, and many others working in his service (Morgoth also had many human allies/minions), any of which could have carried the blades easily.

Also the swords in question were recovered from Trolls, which are entirely another thing.
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Old 11-22-2023, 03:57 PM   #48
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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Eh, I think the major determinant is 'cheap and available', so I would expect M16s.
There were plenty of FALs in the area, because the British used them (the L1A1, semi-auto only), and South Africa made them as well. They were very common in Sub-Saharan Africa already. No AK-47, and they'd be even more common. In fact they were the rifle blamed for the mass slaughter of elephants by poachers up to the 90s, when the AKs 'took over'.
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Old 11-22-2023, 06:15 PM   #49
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Eh, I think the major determinant is 'cheap and available', so I would expect M16s.
In the 1970s and 1980s, the U.S. was a bit more circumspect about handing out M-16s to just anyone. They were a bit more expensive, a bit rarer and not as commonly shipped to truly sketchy organizations because the CIA wanted plausible deniability.

Instead, the FN FAL and the AK-47 filled the role. Even then, the AK-47 was more common than the FN FAL.

But, if you want a gun for a generic late 20th century/early 21st century terrorist/ developing world bandit/drug cartel soldier/"freedom fighter" those two are two obvious choices. In the Western hemisphere, AR-15s and the like are going to be more common due to misappropriated U.S. military aid to Latin American governments and weapons smuggled from the U.S. to the Central and South America.

To make them real bad guy guns, either make them dirty, dusty and worn (for mooks in rural settings) or load them up with weird-looking accessories (for more competent/better equipped mooks and named villains).
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Old 11-22-2023, 08:50 PM   #50
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

So again, the conversation has circled back to good/bad depends a lot on point of view. Also, sometimes it's about what's available. Unless the OP has a specific setting in mind or specific groups in mind, my advice is to go generic. As I said before:

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Originally Posted by Tinman View Post
If that's the case, your probably best off just going with those generic gun lists.
When it comes to many/most weapons, for example, 9mm pistols the differences are blow the resolution of GURPS. Same for most other weapons too. Also, note that sometimes both sides actually use pretty much the same weapons, like the British & Argentinians in the Falkland Islands war.

If you need brands for the NPCs look at what police or military use. Lots of civilians/criminals use the same (or equivalent civilian versions). For heroes use what looks cool to you.

If you need specific suggestions for a type, ask for it & were happy to help.
In America today (2020's) pistols will be 9mm automatics & rifles will be AR types. Note both of these are generic because no matter which actual company manufactured them the stats (except prices) will be virtually identical.
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