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Old 11-21-2023, 01:07 AM   #31
Donny Brook
 
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
And the point about moral relativism isn't novel, even in the context of Action. We get it. One of the OP's best sources is going to be the group at his table, because those are the particular associations he's going to want to trigger in the game. Those associations certainly aren't universal. But the forum might be a group that's at least somewhat correlated with the OP and his group, so it's not an entirely ridiculous question.
Nah, you didn't get it. I'm not saying it's ridiculous. I'm saying we can't answer, except speculatively, without knowing who he is casting in what roles for his game.

A very prompt and thorough answer is likely available from someone if for example, the good guys are a pararescue team extracting a downed aircrew from a cartel controlled province of northern Mexico.
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Old 11-21-2023, 01:10 AM   #32
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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I want to avoid a High-Tech like list of every possible gun (this came up because I was looking at HT for guns to list and realized I had no idea how to narrow it down). So if it helps, drop good and bad and stick with “iconic.” If you wanted to make a curated list of guns of various types for players to choose from for a circa 2020s Action game, that would make people familiar with guns say “yeah, that tracks,” what would they be?
If that's the case, your probably best off just going with those generic gun lists.
When it comes to many/most weapons, for example, 9mm pistols the differences are blow the resolution of GURPS. Same for most other weapons too. Also, note that sometimes both sides actually use pretty much the same weapons, like the British & Argentinians in the Falkland Islands war.

If you need brands for the NPCs look at what police or military use. Lots of civillians/criminals use the same (or equilent civillian versions). For heros use what looks cool to you.

If you need specific suggestions for a type, ask for it & were happy to help.
In America today (2020's) pistols will be 9mm automatics & rifles will be AR types. Note both of these are generic because no matter which actual company manufactured them the stats (except prices) will be virtually identical.
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Old 11-21-2023, 04:03 PM   #33
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Or to put it less flippantly, who is good and who is bad?
Desperately attempting to avoid invoking RL politics, but I'm going to assume that "good guns" are whatever the heroes in Hollywood action movies are packing.

Sure, if you want Russian vs. Cosmic Evil, the good guys will be carrying AK-47s, AK-74s and the like. If the good guys are fighting a Mexican drug cartel, the bad guys might indeed be carrying M-4s, M-16s and AR-15 knockoffs.

Paradoxically, real world Bad Guys really like guns carried by Hollywood Action Good Guys.

If you're willing to step back in time by 80 years, the Really, Truly, Iconically Evil Bad Guys are packing Erma MP 40s, Mauser kar98ks, along with the quintessential Bad Guy Gun, the Luger P08. The Good Guys (at least by comparison), are strapped with whatever isn't Wehrmacht issue.

My personal choice for "world's most evil gun" is probably the AK-47, however. Not because was Soviet issue, but because it was so cheap and widely exported that it got into the hands of some of the most horrible people on the planet, like African bandits and Islamist extremists (unless you count burning your enemies alive or sawing their heads off while filming the action for release on the internet as not-horrible). Furthermore, Mikhail Kalashnikov's creation responsible for the massive increase in African poaching from the 1970s on that devastated African wildlife populations.

Last edited by Pursuivant; 11-21-2023 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 11-21-2023, 04:30 PM   #34
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Desperately attempting to avoid invoking RL politics, but I'm going to assume that "good guns" are whatever the heroes in Hollywood action movies are packing.
That depends on the politics of the movie...

It is somewhat unusual for 'good guy' characters to use cheap or ugly guns, but that's not really reversible and lots of models of guns can be made pretty even if the factory version isn't.
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Old 11-21-2023, 04:54 PM   #35
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Desperately attempting to avoid invoking RL politics, but I'm going to assume that "good guns" are whatever the heroes in Hollywood action movies are packing.

Sure, if you want Russian vs. Cosmic Evil, the good guys will be carrying AK-47s, AK-74s and the like. If the good guys are fighting a Mexican drug cartel, the bad guys might indeed be carrying M-4s, M-16s and AR-15 knockoffs.
And "wronged man goes beyond the law" is a pretty common action plot, in which case the hero may use whatever he can get. If the hero is a survivalist or a recluse the director or the armourer may give him an AK for all kinds of reasons.

But I think GURPS High Tech sets you up with a set of US and Soviet military and police smallarms (and their post-1989 descendants) if you read the descriptions. The page on Kalashnikov rifles even says "this is the most common variant by the year 2000."
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Old 11-22-2023, 04:36 AM   #36
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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Furthermore, Mikhail Kalashnikov's creation responsible for the massive increase in African poaching from the 1970s on that devastated African wildlife populations.
If they weren't using AK-47 series guns they'd have been using FN FALs of various makes, with the same outcome.
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Old 11-22-2023, 10:39 AM   #37
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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It is somewhat unusual for 'good guy' characters to use cheap or ugly guns, but that's not really reversible and lots of models of guns can be made pretty even if the factory version isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
If you're willing to step back in time by 80 years, the Really, Truly, Iconically Evil Bad Guys are packing Erma MP 40s, Mauser kar98ks, along with the quintessential Bad Guy Gun, the Luger P08. The Good Guys (at least by comparison), are strapped with whatever isn't Wehrmacht issue.
It occurs to me that the M1A1 Thompson is far more popular in WWII films than the M3 Grease Gun. Between the two of them, the Thompson is practically a sculpture. The M3 falls in the same "mass produced stamped steel" aesthetic as the Sten and the MP40.

Of course, the M1A1 was still standard, especially for infantry, during most of the fighting worth making a movie about.
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Old 11-22-2023, 12:00 PM   #38
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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If they weren't using AK-47 series guns they'd have been using FN FALs of various makes, with the same outcome.
Eh, I think the major determinant is 'cheap and available', so I would expect M16s.
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Old 11-22-2023, 12:10 PM   #39
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Eh, I think the major determinant is 'cheap and available', so I would expect M16s.
Or whatever Russia used instead of the AK platform; it's not like they wouldn't have had a need for a cheap rifle if Kalashnikov hadn't come up with something. Whatever it was may not have been as good as the AK platform, but still would've been serviceable.
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Old 11-22-2023, 12:30 PM   #40
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Default Re: Iconic Contemporary Guns

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There isn't really a standard 'good guy' gun, because using guns is generally considered somewhat suspect.
That is a philosophical question but the consensus is that it is permissible in given circumstance.

A more relevant point is that the real world is not Tolkien. The Israelis of all people used German hardware in the '48, and both Ukraine and Russia are using Soviet hardware now. There is not this thing were orcs use scimitars (why would foot soldiers use scimitars?) and Elves shiny swords, and Numenoreans magic Nazgul killing swords and Dwarves axes and mattocks (actually mattocks kind of makes sense as an entrenching tool that can be adapted for climbing, spelunking or combat is just what dwarves need).

But there is nothing mystical about modern guns. They do not even look that good. The AK looks awful, and the M-16 does not look great at that. Nothing like a colt or a long rifle or a brown bess, those had style.

As a footnote, cheap and ugly don't pair. Ugliness can be pretty expensive. Partly because a Picatinny or is darned ugly compared to a Dovetail.
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