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Old 10-23-2016, 10:32 AM   #61
Emerald Cat
 
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Spoken like someone that never met an antisocial person.
Most of us live in urban areas because we don't have a choice.
Living safely yet miles away from most other people sounds idyllic not bothersome.
That was a simplifying assumption. I was working with average population densities to get an idea of what the population would be. Realistically, there would be fluctuations such as suburbs and parks. The wealthy could even live more than 20 miles away from a portal. After all, they have the funds to hire messengers to spend time traveling long distance.

However, I wouldn't exactly call the countryside "safe" in this setting. Remember that only TL4 firearms are available. If you miss, the wildlife could easily kill you before you can reload. You would consistently lose to a pack of wolves if you only brought a rifle with you. And since the countryside is mostly unpopulated due to the lack of agriculture, most animals are not afraid of people or their firearms. So living out in the country on your own would be a challenge. But I'm sure some people would try it.
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Old 10-23-2016, 12:25 PM   #62
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

I live in Oregon. We don't have wildlife that could hunt a person except the rare bear. I've never seen one despite living in logging areas as a child.

Wolves don't attack people. Most predators don't not usually because we terrified them being so awesome macho, but simply because animals eat what they've always eaten. Only the truly omnivorous, desperate, or those adapted to hunting primates would attack humans as a matter of course.
I just woke up and am still groggy. So if this nation is extra full of monsters compared to real world regions, I'm sorry for making wrong assumptions.
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Old 10-23-2016, 01:55 PM   #63
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I live in Oregon. We don't have wildlife that could hunt a person except the rare bear. I've never seen one despite living in logging areas as a child.

Wolves don't attack people. Most predators don't not usually because we terrified them being so awesome macho, but simply because animals eat what they've always eaten. Only the truly omnivorous, desperate, or those adapted to hunting primates would attack humans as a matter of course.
I just woke up and am still groggy. So if this nation is extra full of monsters compared to real world regions, I'm sorry for making wrong assumptions.
Yeah, the wildlife usually doesn't attack you. I do go camping a lot with my family, so there have been plenty of chances for that. Most of my camping has taken place in New Mexico and Colorado. Usually the desert regions of those states. These are the kind of places where you could die of thirst if you got injured while alone. And rattlesnakes could kill you if you're not careful, even if you are in a group.

In retrospect, I think I was overestimating the danger of wilderness survival due to these experiences. So it really comes down to how much risk an individual is willing to tolerate.

I don't think anyone established whether this world is extra full of monsters. Magic makes genetically engineering monsters easier. But only mass produced monsters would be able to reproduce for centuries unattended.
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Old 10-23-2016, 02:29 PM   #64
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

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Originally Posted by Ransom View Post
Given that it is not necessary to work to live in this setting, what draws people to the cities?
To be honest, I would probably go with lower population densities. Japan has a population density of 339 people per sq mile. Apparently, the Manna Empire has 10 times the population density of a heavily urbanized TL8 society! No wonder I had so much trouble getting reasonable numbers...I have no clue how the Manna Empire pulls that one off.

Anyway, to answer the question, there are several factors that encourage people to live in the cities. One is that cities present a lot of opportunities to socialize. Secondly, people hate being idle (to varying degrees) and the cities are where the jobs are. Construction work, police work, and city cleaning/maintenance are the most common jobs. Magic is not used for these tasks because doing so is too dangerous and/or unreliable to be practical on a large scale. Thirdly, most of the gates are located in urban areas. Living away from the gates makes it harder to visit family members in distant locations or go to popular vacation sites.

Cities are also much cleaner in this setting than in TL4 in OTL. Rather than dumping sewage into gutters on the street, latrines and sewers are used for sewage disposal. Many citizens work as street sweepers to keep their city clean by removing trash and animal waste. Magical production keeps pollution to a minimum. Thus, air quality and cleanliness are not deterrents to living in the city.

Question: How is such a high population density possible in a TL4^Magic civilization?
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:26 PM   #65
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

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Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
Yeah, the wildlife usually doesn't attack you. I do go camping a lot with my family, so there have been plenty of chances for that. Most of my camping has taken place in New Mexico and Colorado. Usually the desert regions of those states. These are the kind of places where you could die of thirst if you got injured while alone. And rattlesnakes could kill you if you're not careful, even if you are in a group.
...
I've seen videos of just how much harassment it takes to make a rattlesnake bite. It's absurd. There's a reason why nearly incident involves alcohol and it's rarely the snake that's been drinking. ;)

I lived in the desert part of Oregon where going to the local pond involved a continuous cacophany of maracas... and oceans of grasshoppers. Never once bitten or even saw one. I just watched where I stepped and it was perfectly safe.
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:38 PM   #66
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

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Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
...
Cities are also much cleaner in this setting than in TL4 in OTL. Rather than dumping sewage into gutters on the street, latrines and sewers are used for sewage disposal. Many citizens work as street sweepers to keep their city clean by removing trash and animal waste. Magical production keeps pollution to a minimum. Thus, air quality and cleanliness are not deterrents to living in the city.

Question: How is such a high population density possible in a TL4^Magic civilization?
Sewers have existed for thousands of years. It really took more knowledge about disease transmission and outbreaks to force cities to plunk down the money to build them.
Complaining about the odor and filth of the city would be like going to a farm and whining about the cow dung stink.

If anything, magic cures for disease COULD make the problem, to our way of thinking, worse than it was in our history.

The main thing limiting city size and density was resource transportation. Mainly water, then food, then all the other industrial materials, I'd imagine.
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Old 10-23-2016, 05:33 PM   #67
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
If anything, magic cures for disease COULD make the problem, to our way of thinking, worse than it was in our history.
Earlier in the thread we established that magic can cause a lot of mishaps. Moreover, it is used as a last resort for disease treatment. So installing sanitation to prevent disease would make sense. The main problem would be getting the political will to install it.

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
The main thing limiting city size and density was resource transportation. Mainly water, then food, then all the other industrial materials, I'd imagine.
I agree. I added the constraint that most urbanites would be unwilling to live more than a day's hike from a gate to determine city size. In retrospect, I should have just looked that up.
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Old 10-24-2016, 09:46 AM   #68
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Default Re: Question Game: Post Agricultural Fantasy Setting.

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Originally Posted by Emerald Cat View Post
Question: How is such a high population density possible in a TL4^Magic civilization?
The scholars of the manna empire lay the blame squarely on the abundance of food in the empire. The density started with a great deal of immigration after the blight that killed the crops, and the population has just gone up from there.

The cities have an odd distribution of housing, but in most places its surprisingly flat: 6 people per acre isn't terribly dense, though the centers do get rather built up. But physically housing them all isn't that hard if you're willing to use sun-baked bricks.

Disease does happen, but populations always seem to spring back.

Question: How is waste sewage dealt with? Particularly given that farming isn't an option and there is stupidly large amounts of it that comes from magically appearing food?
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