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Old 11-05-2021, 09:19 AM   #11
Sam Mitschke
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

The structure cards are mathematically balanced, but they *feel* quite different from one another. Much of that is based on your car build and play style:

Light Plastic Cladding is a dice gamble that has the potential to pay off big...but it could be destroyed by a single hit.

Standard Ceramic Plate doesn't do anything fancy, but the 4 hits it can soak up is predictable and reliable.

Carbon Laminate and Standard Steel Plate are on both sides of the middle, for players who don't feel like committing fully in one direction or the other.
Each structure card gives you a fair return for your BP in a different way. At 2BP, I tend to prefer Carbon Laminate, because I don't feel robbed if the black die never comes up a shield...and it's absolutely awesome when it does. That said, I've used all of them many times. It just depends on the other cards I have equipped and how "dicey" I'm feeling that day.
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Old 11-05-2021, 02:14 PM   #12
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

IMO, the more armor points you are playing with, the more valuable the defense dice become as opposed to the damage a structure can take.

For me, it comes down to how many times you are likely to be able to use it for the rolls as opposed to just soaking up damage.
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Old 11-05-2021, 02:40 PM   #13
Sam Mitschke
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Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

You make a good point, since games with high armor points do tend to run a few rounds longer. That said, the dice-oriented structure cards are useful even in small games, since the weapons tend to be smaller, requiring more shots to chew into the lower AP. As long as the AP/BP/CP ratio stays at or near the recommended 1:4:1, there are typically multiple opportunities for the dice to pay off, and things stay pretty balanced (though the dice will still betray you).

It gets *very* weird when you use a ratio that is wildly different, but having fun with those numbers is part of the sandbox aspect of the game.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:17 AM   #14
beetle496
 
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Frederick, MD
Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

I do very much appreciate how the game mechanics are all about opportunity costs! In particular, picking between X at n BP versus Y at n+1 BP is very compelling!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
The structure cards are mathematically balanced, but they *feel* quite different from one another. Much of that is based on your car build and play style…
I am pretty risk adverse, but I don’t mind using the middle of a bell curve. For two BP, I will always be picking between Light Plastic Cladding or Standard Ceramic Plate. It comes down to how many shots I think I might survive.

Here’s the mean expected DP value by number of attacks. Standard Ceramic Plate is a flat 4 DP. Light Plastic Cladding (1 blue die) is 50% chance of 1 (so .5 on average), plus the 1 DP base. Carbon Laminate and Standard Steel Plate are in between those two. Note that this table is by attacks, not turns. In a four player game, six attacks (the tipping point where Cladding starts out-pacing Ceramic Plate) could just be one round!

.....1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9
SCP 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0
.CL 3.2 3.3 3.5 3.7 3.8 4.0 4.2 4.3 4.5
SSP 2.3 2.7 3.0 3.3 3.7 4.0 4.3 4.7 4.7
LPC 1.5 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5

Notice that there is not a column where either Carbon Laminate or Standard Steel Plate is better than both Standard Ceramic Plate and Light Plastic Cladding. One of the later two is clearly the better choice. It really is a question about how long you think your armor will last!

Last edited by beetle496; 11-06-2021 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Grammar
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:48 PM   #15
Sam Mitschke
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

The game length was intended to sit at an average of six rounds (factoring in both large and small BP games), and the structure cards needed to last somewhere between a third to half of that length to feel worthwhile.

It's really cool to see that play out in your chart!
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:54 PM   #16
Sam Mitschke
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

Also, the strategy of everyone picking on one player, while a logical choice in older versions, is not as clear-cut in this version. You WANT more guns on the table to spread the damage around, but you don't want them shooting at YOU...so positioning is key.

If all three other players are shooting at you for all attacks, one of these things happened:

1) You went out of control, making you the prime target.
2) You positioned your car so that you are the "pig-in-the-middle."
3) Your opponents are conspiring to eliminate you first.

You can generally avoid #1 and #2, and #3 can be avoided for every game afterward (don't play with those people).

[edit: typo]
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Old 07-15-2022, 06:26 AM   #17
JessicajK
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle496 View Post
I do very much appreciate how the game mechanics are all about opportunity costs! In particular, picking between X at n BP versus Y at n+1 BP is very compelling!

I am pretty risk adverse, but I donít mind using the middle of a bell curve. For two BP, I will always be picking between Light Plastic Cladding or Standard Ceramic Plate. It comes down to how many shots I think I might survive.

Hereís the mean expected DP value by number of attacks. Standard Ceramic Plate is a flat 4 DP. Light Plastic Cladding (1 blue die) is 50% chance of 1 (so .5 on average), plus the 1 DP base. Carbon Laminate and Standard Steel Plate are in between those two. Note that this table is by attacks, not turns. In a four player game, six attacks (the tipping point where Cladding starts out-pacing Ceramic Plate) could just be one round!

.....1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9
SCP 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0 4.0
.CL 3.2 3.3 3.5 3.7 3.8 4.0 4.2 4.3 4.5
SSP 2.3 2.7 3.0 3.3 3.7 4.0 4.3 4.7 4.7
LPC 1.5 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5

Notice that there is not a column where either Carbon Laminate or Standard Steel Plate is better than both Standard Ceramic Plate and Light Plastic Cladding. One of the later two is clearly the better choice. It really is a question about how long you think your armor will last! We ordered one through https://zelta.ca/services/floor-installation/ on a design project.
This is a ready-to-use pultruded carbon fiber laminate, usually bonded to the outside of structures to provide additional load-bearing capacity. It is a lightweight material with a high tensile strength (higher than that of steel reinforcement used in the concrete industry) and is mainly used for additional flexural reinforcement (i.e. plate bonding) of concrete and wood elements within the system.

Last edited by JessicajK; 07-18-2022 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 12-07-2023, 01:59 AM   #18
ClaireT
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

Quote:
Originally Posted by beetle496 View Post
I am not sure it makes sense (from a BP perspective) but, based on another thread, it seems that the various cladding/laminates/plates can all stack! Is that correct?

I recently stumbled upon an insightful piece on default carbon laminate and light plastic cladding. The article delves into the nuances, shedding light on their benefits and applications. If you're into architecture or design, it's a must-read! Read more about it here. The provided link offers a comprehensive overview and might spark some fresh ideas for your projects. Let's keep the discussions focused on our shared passion for architecture and design. Looking forward to your thoughts!
Thanks for the information!

Last edited by ClaireT; 12-10-2023 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 12-07-2023, 08:38 AM   #19
Magesmiley
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Snohomish, WA
Default Re: Carbon Laminate / Light Plastic Cladding

One other thing that is worth keeping in mind is collisions. The cards with additional dice will fare more poorly, as the dice are of no use in collisions. So if you expect a lot of collisions, it's usually a better plan to go with the big slab of damage points.
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