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Old 12-04-2023, 06:41 PM   #11
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Some question with Defense Bonus Meta-Trait from《GURPS Supers》

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The thing about parry is... there's pretty much no situation where +1 parry [6] is a better investment than +2 weapon skill [8] that gives you +1 parry as a side effect. Enhanced Parry should be something like [3] for one weapon, and [5] for all weapons.

The thing about block is... it's only real virtue is that there are a small number of attacks that can be blocked but not parried. Unfortunately, most high tech ranged attacks can't be blocked, and against low tech ranged attacks you're often better off just tanking them. Really, the game would work better if all three defenses were just specializations of a Defense ability, because all that generally matters is the highest of your available active defenses.
On the other hand, just buying Enhanced Dodge for 15 points/level and foregoing increased Basic Move (which you would get if you bought Basic Speed) can be a good fit to some character concepts. And the price is perfectly fair.
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Old 12-04-2023, 07:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Some question with Defense Bonus Meta-Trait from《GURPS Supers》

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
On the other hand, just buying Enhanced Dodge for 15 points/level and foregoing increased Basic Move (which you would get if you bought Basic Speed) can be a good fit to some character concepts. And the price is perfectly fair.
Well, it's slightly worse than buying up basic speed and then dropping the move, but only because of initiative. I'm not really convinced that dodge is worth [15], but a lot of that is because weapon skill costs [4] and it generally only takes 2 levels of skill (1 level if using a Rcl 1 weapon) to negate a level of dodge.
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Old 12-04-2023, 07:39 PM   #13
76 Biomecha
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Default Re: Some question with Defense Bonus Meta-Trait from《GURPS Supers》

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Yes, you can. It doesn't necessarily provide a physical defense by itself. Rather, it makes your existing physical defenses better. This might be, for example, because you have superhuman speed and can see the attacks coming, or because you telekinetically deflect them, or because you have a focused danger sense that alerts you to attacks ahead of time.
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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
The answer depends on exactly what you mean. Will the trait alone allow you to Block attacks when you don't have a shield, cloak, or similar item that normally allows a Block roll? No, it will not. But if you do have one of those items Ready for use, you can Block as normal, with a bonus from the trait. With the Gadget version, the Gadget is probably assumed to be a shield, so you can use it to Block with.
If you want a trait that does allow you to Block, even without a shield available, Kromm previously suggested an option - Extra Arm (Force Extension +50%, Shield Mount -80%) [7] technically gives you an indestructible third arm that can only be used to hold a shield, but he further suggests that, with said arm being indestructible, allowing it to count as the shield to Block with should be fine. You can describe its appearance however you'd like - he suggested a glowing magical shield that hovers near the character.
It seems to have both answers.
It started because I was making a character who could use his wings as a shield (called "shield wings",like some character of animation or game) to block attacks, and was wondering if I needed to buy extra arms (shield mounts-80%) if I had already purchased the Defense Bonus Meta-Trait and Flight(Winged-25%)?
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Old 12-05-2023, 07:19 AM   #14
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Some question with Defense Bonus Meta-Trait from《GURPS Supers》

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Originally Posted by 76 Biomecha View Post
It seems to have both answers.
It started because I was making a character who could use his wings as a shield (called "shield wings",like some character of animation or game) to block attacks, and was wondering if I needed to buy extra arms (shield mounts-80%) if I had already purchased the Defense Bonus Meta-Trait and Flight(Winged-25%)?
I can see a few ways to handle this. One would be to interpret it as a Power Block or Power Parry (from GURPS Powers) - I think Flight normally wouldn't be eligible for either of those, but the GM could waive that restriction (it's more a flavor restriction than a balance one anyway).

Another option would be Extra Arm (Shield Mount -80%) - you could opt for just one if you can only Block once per turn (or, using the optional rules for multiple Blocks from Martial Arts, take a -5 to each additional Block; note in either case you could describe this as the character covering themselves with both wings), or two if you want to be able to use each wing to Block different attacks. But Extra Arm (Shield Mount) on its own doesn't give you a Block (Kromm's version did because the extra arms are invulnerable, thanks to Force Extension). For that, I'd allow you to be treated as having a DB 0 shield as an Accessory Perk (for [1]), and then you can Block with your wings just fine (you probably need an Accessory for each Shield Mount, so you're paying [2] for each Block you can make in a turn).

A third option is to give the character one or two (depending on how many you can use at once) Crushing Strikers, as suggested on B56. In addition to letting you bludgeon foes with your wings, Strikers can be used to Parry - not quite the same as Block, but could work, depending on what sorts of attacks you want to be able to fend off. As GM, I'd be inclined to let a Striker be defined as more shield-like than weapon-like, such that it uses Block instead of Parry, at no charge (there are benefits and drawbacks to each).

A final option is a bit more complicated, and deviates a lot more from the default Rules as Written. This would be to treat your character as having indestructible wings, giving your Extra Arm(s) the Force Extension Enhancement, as in Kromm's version. But a big chunk of the Winged Limitation's value is from the fact that it allows foes to cripple your Flight by targeting your wings, and indestructible wings don't allow for that. I'd allow for a new Limitation, call it "Winged, Indestructible -10%." That -10% covers the fact your wings can be bound, and that you can't fly without enough clearance around you.


In most of the above cases, you could choose to have your Flight and whatever Advantage gives you the ability to Block as Alternate Abilities, reducing the less expensive one (the ability to Block) at 1/5th price. Note this will mean you can't use your wings to Block attacks while you're flying.
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Old 12-05-2023, 07:37 AM   #15
76 Biomecha
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Default Re: Some question with Defense Bonus Meta-Trait from《GURPS Supers》

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I can see a few ways to handle this. One would be to interpret it as a Power Block or Power Parry (from GURPS Powers) - I think Flight normally wouldn't be eligible for either of those, but the GM could waive that restriction (it's more a flavor restriction than a balance one anyway).

Another option would be Extra Arm (Shield Mount -80%) - you could opt for just one if you can only Block once per turn (or, using the optional rules for multiple Blocks from Martial Arts, take a -5 to each additional Block; note in either case you could describe this as the character covering themselves with both wings), or two if you want to be able to use each wing to Block different attacks. But Extra Arm (Shield Mount) on its own doesn't give you a Block (Kromm's version did because the extra arms are invulnerable, thanks to Force Extension). For that, I'd allow you to be treated as having a DB 0 shield as an Accessory Perk (for [1]), and then you can Block with your wings just fine (you probably need an Accessory for each Shield Mount, so you're paying [2] for each Block you can make in a turn).

A third option is to give the character one or two (depending on how many you can use at once) Crushing Strikers, as suggested on B56. In addition to letting you bludgeon foes with your wings, Strikers can be used to Parry - not quite the same as Block, but could work, depending on what sorts of attacks you want to be able to fend off. As GM, I'd be inclined to let a Striker be defined as more shield-like than weapon-like, such that it uses Block instead of Parry, at no charge (there are benefits and drawbacks to each).

A final option is a bit more complicated, and deviates a lot more from the default Rules as Written. This would be to treat your character as having indestructible wings, giving your Extra Arm(s) the Force Extension Enhancement, as in Kromm's version. But a big chunk of the Winged Limitation's value is from the fact that it allows foes to cripple your Flight by targeting your wings, and indestructible wings don't allow for that. I'd allow for a new Limitation, call it "Winged, Indestructible -10%." That -10% covers the fact your wings can be bound, and that you can't fly without enough clearance around you.


In most of the above cases, you could choose to have your Flight and whatever Advantage gives you the ability to Block as Alternate Abilities, reducing the less expensive one (the ability to Block) at 1/5th price. Note this will mean you can't use your wings to Block attacks while you're flying.
Thank you for your advice. It was very helpful.
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Old 12-06-2023, 04:41 PM   #16
pawsplay
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Some question with Defense Bonus Meta-Trait from《GURPS Supers》

If enhanced parry were 5 points for all weapons, 25 points would let you buy +5, including with weapons used at default. That's a pretty significant side benefit, for also getting a reliable Parry with all your best weapons.
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