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Old 12-06-2023, 11:11 AM   #21
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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Originally Posted by ravenfish View Post
Frankly, in settings like Dungeon Fantasy where the PCs are expected to have cheap and easy access to healing methods that work much faster than natural healing, "No Natural Healing" feels a bit like a point crock. "Oh, woe is me, I can't spend weeks in bed recovering, but must instead wait fifteen minutes while the cleric recovers his FP to cast a healing spell."
I've always thought of Unhealing as not generally allowing magical healing, with the exception of abilities that drain someone else of vitality. That is, I thought the part in Partial Unhealing that says "You can also heal yourself by stealing HP from others using Vampiric Bite, magic, or psionics" meant you could steal HP using one of those methods, not that you could steal HP or use magic/psionics for healing.
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Old 12-06-2023, 11:17 AM   #22
RyanW
 
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I've always thought of Unhealing as not generally allowing magical healing, with the exception of abilities that drain someone else of vitality. That is, I thought the part in Partial Unhealing that says "You can also heal yourself by stealing HP from others using Vampiric Bite, magic, or psionics" meant you could steal HP using one of those methods, not that you could steal HP or use magic/psionics for healing.
You could read it either way:

You can also heal yourself by:
  • stealing HP from others using Vampiric Bite
  • magic
  • psionics

You can also heal yourself by stealing HP from others using:
  • Vampiric Bite
  • magic
  • psionics
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Old 12-06-2023, 12:14 PM   #23
Kallatari
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I've always thought of Unhealing as not generally allowing magical healing, with the exception of abilities that drain someone else of vitality. That is, I thought the part in Partial Unhealing that says "You can also heal yourself by stealing HP from others using Vampiric Bite, magic, or psionics" meant you could steal HP using one of those methods, not that you could steal HP or use magic/psionics for healing.
There's another thread on Unhealing in which Kromm specifically replied to how it works, and he was very clear that Unhealing does not prevent supernatural healing from working on you. So, you might have Unhealing (Total) [-30], but healing spells, the Healing advantage, etc., will still work on you.

Unhealing only does the following:

- First Aid and Physician does not work on you with respect to restoring HP; Surgery, defined as extreme physical intervention, however does still work.
- You do not get your daily HT rolls to regain HP from natural healing, nor can you have anything to replace it (e.g., Regeneration). With Unhealing (Partial), there's a loophole when it does work (e.g., under a full moon, bathe in blood, every GURPSday, etc.), while with Total it never works.

The Leech method of healing appears to be a variant of Unhealing (Partial); instead of having a loophole when your healing works, you can heal yourself by stealing HP from others, whether through Leech, magic, or psionics (or presumably any other power that lets you steal HP). Granted, there's some speculation on my part here, and nothing specifically states you can't have both a loophole for natural healing and Leech-like effects, but I do think they're variants to one another; e.g., a Vampire has Unhealing (Partial), and only heals through its Vampiric Bite Leech and doesn't have a loophole where healing works.

Regardless of the speculation about the Leech method of healing, nowhere does Unhealing state that magical healing does not work on you. So cure spells, etc., work just fine. And Kromm was clear in that other post that that they do work.

One could arguably make a "special effect" ruling in which magical healing defined as "accelerating your normal healing" doesn't work, and that would be valid. But generic "it just fixes you" healing-type spells would still work. But since Healing and healing spells, psionic cure, etc., don't explicitly state how they work, it's kind of a moot point.

A good example are Machine with Unhealing Total. What's not often said is a hidden Feature of machines/robots that basically replaces medicine for healing with repairs for healing. You don't use First Aid/Physician/Surgery, but instead use Mechanic/Electronic Repairs/etc. It also switches the use of healing powers to repair powers. (a healing spell won't work, but a repair spell does.)

Because Machines have Unhealing (Total), they don't regain HP daily on their own. Looking at the repairs skills, anything that would be more akin to First Aid/Physician would not work, but anything akin to "physical intervention" like Surgery does.. which I would see Mechanic/Electronic Repairs falling under that category, thus why those skills work for restoring HP. And a Machine can most definitely be repaired with Repair spells and the like, which, if not for their feature of replacing medicine with repairs, would instead mean that healing spells would work. So since Machines with Unhealing (Total) of Machines can absolutely be repaired with magic, it means that Unhealing (Total) on a living being means that they can still be healed with magic.

I concur with Ravenfish that I find this make Unhealing unfairly priced in a setting where supernatural/magical healing is freely available. But that's a whole other topic.

And Kromm also specifically stated in that previously mentioned thread that to have an Unhealing that also stops supernatural healing would require an additional higher level of Unhealing (he never bothered to speculate what that would be worth).
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Old 12-06-2023, 04:19 PM   #24
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: How would you price No Supernatural Healing

I can see obvious uses for "only specific supernatural healing"(Athelas, vacation to Valinor, King Arthur's Scabbard, Librarian killing Dracula with aspen stake). That makes for a quest.

REMOVING the source of supernatural healing for a bad guy (throwing the ring into the fires of Orodruin) also has advantages.

The best use of No Supernatural Healing I can think of is when a supernatural being is operating outside of it's environment-it would be noting that their healing is location dependent.

Suppose an Elf is ferrophobic, and can only visit humans if it goes back to it's home to "recharge"? Then if the elf is going on a long quest with humans it is very vulnerable just to their weapons and armor. It would be especially vulnerable to an enemy human-just being knocked about by a human weapon far away from home would be crippling whereas a human would be healthy as long as armor is not penetrated.
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