Extra Arms & Mundane Crafting

[Akule]

I was looking at playing a spider-like character with the Extra Arms advantage, and I was looking to see if they had any effect in craft mundane items (specifically, sewing, weaving, leather-working, knitting, and other handicrafts).

I know from the advantage itself, it won't give you any increase in the skill (which is fine, I plan on taking a Talent and Enhanced Manual Dexterity for that), but I was curious to see if you had additional arms, if it would help you craft items faster or not. I planned on getting Enhanced Tracking to be able to keep track of what all of my extra arms are doing, and the extra-flexible adjustment, so they can reach and work with any of the other arms.

Would it treated be something like if you had additional assistants, or would I just have to work on three separate objects at the same time? Can I even craft multiple items like that with just Enhanced Tracking and the extra arms, or do I need Compartmentalized Mind?

Thank you for any help.

[Varyon]

I might be inclined to allow it to count as having assistants, particularly with Enhanced Tracking, although note that they'll be somewhat-clumsy assistants (skill at -4 relative to yours) if you don't have Ambidexterity (or perhaps you should call it Multidexterity) or a relevant Off Hand Training Perk. Realistically, there are some parts where having assistants a bit of distance away would be more useful than having them basically occupying the same space as you (they can be off working on different parts of the job, for example), but we'll assume the fact you are going to work more efficiently with yourself than with someone else (you basically have an enhanced version of the Teamwork Perk) balances that out for simplicity. So, every two additional arms counts as having an assistant; this will depend on the details of your arachno-person, but I'm going to assume this works out to you being able to accomplish 3 man-hours of work each hour (three sets of arms, and one set of legs, for a total of 8 limbs).

From a gamist perspective, it may be appropriate to charge you for having a couple Allies as Alternate Abilities to your Extra Arms (and perhaps Enhanced Tracking, lumping the cost of them together). Summonable, Always-Available Allies that are basically only able to serve as crafting assistants (presumably meaning they have an Optional Specialization for each of your crafting skills, to only be able to serve as assistants, not to do the crafting themselves) are going to be pretty cheap; unless your crafting skills make up a substantial number of your points, they're probably well below 25% of your point value; being [1] each after accounting for being Alternate Abilities is probably achievable (at 25% of your point value, they'd be [1.6] each, rounded up to [2] each - base cost of [1], boosted to [2] for Summonable +100% and further boosted to [8] for Always Available x4). So, with all that in mind, I'd say being able to treat your Extra Arms as an assistant (with equal skill if you have Multidexterity or appropriate Perk, at relative -4 to skill otherwise) is simply a Leveled Perk; each level counts as another assistant, and you can have up to one such "assistant" for every two additional arms.

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Akule

Would it treated be something like if you had additional assistants, or would I just have to work on three separate objects at the same time? Can I even craft multiple items like that with just Enhanced Tracking and the extra arms, or do I need Compartmentalized Mind?

Thank you for any help.

Without Compartmentalized Mind you can only perform one task that requires concentration at a time. Most craft skills would probably require concentration unless they are so simple you would get the +4 bonus for routine use. It would be a GM call, but I would probably allow a character with additional manipulators like that as well as Enhanced Tracking to work on multiple simultanous routine tasks at base skill without picking up Compartmentalized Mind. It'd be something that might help with job rolls or maybe spending less time maintaining party gear, but nothing significant.

For tasks that are complex enough to not offer the +4 routine task bonus, I'd almost certainly require Compartmentalized Mind to multi-task. These tasks require enough attention that you can't just semi-focus without inviting failure in both.

If we're talking a multi-armed species, they probably have a racial variant of the skills which incorporate their additional limbs for some benefit. This might mean they use different types of equipment for similar tasks, which could be grounds for an equipment bonus to those racial skill variants. Or maybe their equipment is cheaper for the same gear quality that others use.

[mburr0003]

Depending on what the skills are I might give a ten-twenty percent speed boost, but for others, as has been mentioned, you effectively need assistants doing other parts of the work.

For mechanics I'd be more inclined to give you a penalty mitigator of +1 or +2 to offset "hard jobs", as sometimes that hard job is because you need to hold multiple things at once, or need more arm strength than one or two arms can account for. Certainly the capacity to hold parts in place while you work without needing to set a 'third hand' tool would be handy...

Consider it like the bonus for Grappling, sometimes an extra hand on the job is worth a bonus.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

Depending on what the skills are I might give a ten-twenty percent speed boost, but for others, as has been mentioned, you effectively need assistants doing other parts of the work.

For mechanics I'd be more inclined to give you a penalty mitigator of +1 or +2 to offset "hard jobs", as sometimes that hard job is because you need to hold multiple things at once, or need more arm strength than one or two arms can account for. Certainly the capacity to hold parts in place while you work without needing to set a 'third hand' tool would be handy...

Consider it like the bonus for Grappling, sometimes an extra hand on the job is worth a bonus.

I'm a carpenter, and almost daily, I remark that I could get so much more work accomplished if I just had an extra hand. Not a whole worker, just an extra hand to use for various tasks.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

For mechanics I'd be more inclined to give you a penalty mitigator of +1 or +2 to offset "hard jobs", as sometimes that hard job is because you need to hold multiple things at once, or need more arm strength than one or two arms can account for. Certainly the capacity to hold parts in place while you work without needing to set a 'third hand' tool would be handy...

.

This would be my range but I'd explain as being the equivalent of an Equipment bonus or even an Accessory Perk. You can hold things others have to put into vises. I'd be pretty sure you couldn't perform multiple tasks with the Extra Arms by themselves. Extra Attack might be on topic.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

I'm a carpenter, and almost daily, I remark that I could get so much more work accomplished if I just had an extra hand. Not a whole worker, just an extra hand to use for various tasks.

I've done enough armoring (low tech armor), smithing, carpentry, miniature painting, art, etc. to agree.

What Extra Arms should get you is reduced penalties when using less than Basic Equipment to perform various tasks. Say +2 per Extra Arm for any task where a clamp, brace, jig or assistant would offset penalties to skill.

That's in addition to any bonuses for Taking Extra Time, since a solo crafter is effectively penalizing their skill for many tasks by not having an assistant. They cancel that penalty using some combination of Taking Extra Time and/or using a Good-Quality or better Toolkit.

My logic is that Basic Equipment for most craft skills include various devices for holding work in place. A Mini-Toolkit (good enough for simple repairs, -2 or worse for more serious repairs or fabrication) isn't going to have those things because they're heavy, bulky and not critical for most simple repairs. If they are, schlep back to the garage/basement/truck where you keep your Basic Toolkit and get the extra gear you need. If you don't have the gear, spend 20+ minutes performing obscene invocations and making blood sacrifices while you cast your ritual "Stay in Place Dammit!" spell.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

My logic is that Basic Equipment for most craft skills include various devices for holding work in place. A Mini-Toolkit (good enough for simple repairs, -2 or worse for more serious repairs or fabrication) isn't going to have those things because they're heavy, bulky and not critical for most simple repairs.

I like it that way, a penalty mitigator for having less than ideal equipment, and a small speed bonus for some crafting skills.

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

I'm a carpenter, and almost daily, I remark that I could get so much more work accomplished if I just had an extra hand. Not a whole worker, just an extra hand to use for various tasks.

Same in my job as a cook

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

Same in my job as a cook

Holding a saucepan and using a whisk while pouring in stuff would certainly make various tasks easier as a cook.