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Old 03-09-2023, 07:25 PM   #1
VIVIT
 
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Default Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

Recently I learned that shock was uncapped in 3e—and when I think about it, that seems a lot more natural to me than limiting the penalty to –4, whether the injury causing it was only a minor wound or whether it left you reeling with 1 HP left and forced a knockdown check that you almost failed. –4 isn't even that much, particularly for cinematic masters; it's only “Hard” on the scale of TDMs.

So why was this change made? I can't find anything in there FAQ about it.
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Old 03-09-2023, 08:03 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

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Originally Posted by VIVIT View Post
Recently I learned that shock was uncapped in 3e—and when I think about it, that seems a lot more natural to me than limiting the penalty to –4, whether the injury causing it was only a minor wound or whether it left you reeling with 1 HP left and forced a knockdown check that you almost failed. –4 isn't even that much, particularly for cinematic masters; it's only “Hard” on the scale of TDMs.

So why was this change made? I can't find anything in there FAQ about it.
If had to guess it's probably because anything that does shock of greater than 4 causes a major wound and thus probably stuns you wasting a turn.
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Old 03-10-2023, 01:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

I don't know any specifics and I only played third edition for two or three years, but I can imagine it's a compromise between playability at different power levels. It's easy to get 5 to 10 injury from attacks and if you're not playing at Dungeon Fantasy power levels but with moderately heroic heroes with skills around 14 to 16, there's often not much of a point in choosing any action that needs a skill roll if you get more than 4 injury.

With the cap your default action after being injured is not always defensive or ancillary. You can still try for an attack, a spell or something else that needs a skill roll. As TGLS said there's also a chance for being stunned - depending on your hit points and where you where you were hit. That was already there in 3rd Edition Revised, but maybe it was deemed too redundant.
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Old 03-10-2023, 03:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

Remember too that some campaigns run at a starting value of 100 to 150 pts.

I have run there from 1986 to now.

In a lot of GURPS combats the first wound is the beginning of a death spiral.

The 4th Ed cap make such a spiral less certain...however Pain Penalties at the very least can stall a person's offense.

Going All out Defense to 'bleed off' the penalty and the resuming (if still vertical) on the next round IME is one standard response to getting hit.

YMMV however from my personal medical travels IME after a certain point pain does kinda of hit a cap.

I don't have a problem or issue with the 4th Ed rules...nor did I have an issue with Eds 1 through 3.
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Old 03-10-2023, 11:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

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Originally Posted by VIVIT View Post
Recently I learned that shock was uncapped in 3e—and when I think about it, that seems a lot more natural to me than limiting the penalty to –4, whether the injury causing it was only a minor wound or whether it left you reeling with 1 HP left and forced a knockdown check that you almost failed. –4 isn't even that much, particularly for cinematic masters; it's only “Hard” on the scale of TDMs.

So why was this change made? I can't find anything in there FAQ about it.
Obviously I have no idea about the actual reason it was, but speculatively...

-4 certainly is quite a bit. Sure, a cinematic master who isn't taking other penalties can eat it no problem...but why aren't they taking other penalties? Unless it's a skill contest type thing, you don't expect to be rolling against 18+ for interesting things, you'll be taking some kind of penalties. Potentially self-inflicted for benefits (like deceptive attack), but if so having to let those go is its own penalty.

Also, having you make the check to not be stunned but then be effectively only allowed to do things that don't involve die rolls for the turn seems weird.
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Old 03-10-2023, 12:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

-4 is equal to Severe Pain, and I'm not certain if typical wounds would get above that level. Hits to areas that are particularly susceptible to pain (groin shots are infamous) could certainly be worse... but then those do have a higher cap already. Some types of attacks (rather than just hit locations) can also cause pain well outside of how much damage they do, but I think those tend to have a Side Effect or Follow-Up Affliction of some level of pain.

That would be my guess as to why they capped it there, anyway.
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Old 03-10-2023, 01:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post

Also, having you make the check to not be stunned but then be effectively only allowed to do things that don't involve die rolls for the turn seems weird.
Shock actually doesn't affect Active Defense rolls (in 3e or 4e) probably for gamist reasons. So in 3e it _was_ weirder. You could have -20 to your DX or IQ-based rolls but still Dodge and Parry at full effect. The disconnect is not quite so obvious with the -4 cap.
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Old 03-10-2023, 08:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
-4 is equal to Severe Pain, and I'm not certain if typical wounds would get above that level.
I don't know—I'm told that gunshot wounds, particular from hollow-point bullets, REALLY hurt.
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Old 03-10-2023, 08:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

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I don't know—I'm told that gunshot wounds, particular from hollow-point bullets, REALLY hurt.
Ken Hite's recent experience doesn't mention that and "I didn't know I'd been shot until I saw the blood" stories are quite common.
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Old 03-11-2023, 12:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why is shock capped at −4 in 4e?

If a celestial titan is fighting and takes a measly little 20 HP wound then that shouldn't stop him from hitting back (and/or composing poetry).
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