How do they say "fighter", here?

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Darkwalker

Germans don't use the term Engineer (or it's german counterpart Ingenieur) for their Combat Support troops. The units are called Pioniere with a speciality attached (Brücken-Pioniere for Bridges, Eisenbahn-Pioniere for Railroad etc.) The term "Combat Engineer" always causes Questions when playing Twilight with a new group

Engineer is a legally protected title in Germany is it not?

[walkir]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Engineer is a legally protected title in Germany is it not?

According to wikipedia since the 1970s, yes. You have to study several years to get it and can even get a doctorate (Dr.Ing.) in it.
As the most modern development there's a bachelor/master of engineering, but I don't know anything about that will work out. (And it still is new enough that I guess most of the people involved have no clear idea how to manage the semester after the one the oldest bachelor students are in).
My brother is becoming an engineer, but he still is in the old system.

Edit: I just learned the title was introduced that way back in 1899...

[Michele]

Originally Posted by smurf

Also 'Jagd' on German tanks (hull mounted main guns) were 'tank killers' or 'Assault Guns'.

"Jagdpanzer" or "Panzerjäger" were indeed "tank hunters". i.e. "tank destroyers". "Assault guns" have their own term in German, which is "Sturmgeschütz" (I'm under the impression that "assault gun" in English actually was born as a translation of the German term).

Then we have Kreigsmarine, which opens up a whole can of worms...

Kreigsmarine - Navy Seaman

Krieg is "war", Marine is "navy". While in English there is the "navy" and then the "merchant navy", in German there is the civilian "Marine" and then the "war navy".

[Darkwalker]

Originally Posted by Michele

"Jagdpanzer" or "Panzerjäger" were indeed "tank hunters". i.e. "tank destroyers". "Assault guns" have their own term in German, which is "Sturmgeschütz" (I'm under the impression that "assault gun" in English actually was born as a translation of the German term).



Krieg is "war", Marine is "navy". While in English there is the "navy" and then the "merchant navy", in German there is the civilian "Marine" and then the "war navy".

Actually the term "Handelsmarine" is used for the merchant navy

[Darkwalker]

Originally Posted by Pomphis

OTOH we have not just Army, but Armee and Heer. Heer is the entire land forces, equivalent to US Army, Heeresgruppe is an Army Group, and Armee an Army, though sometimes Armee is also used for a country´s land forces in general.

We had ;) Actually the term Heer is a post WWII term and then Armee wasn't used any more (There's no 6th Army in the Bundeswehr)

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by walkir

According to wikipedia since the 1970s, yes. You have to study several years to get it and can even get a doctorate (Dr.Ing.) in it.
As the most modern development there's a bachelor/master of engineering, but I don't know anything about that will work out. (And it still is new enough that I guess most of the people involved have no clear idea how to manage the semester after the one the oldest bachelor students are in).
My brother is becoming an engineer, but he still is in the old system.

Edit: I just learned the title was introduced that way back in 1899...

Yeah, you can get BEng/MEng/DEng over here, it's just we nasty tendency to apply the term 'engineer' to people who are actually technicians, whereas I'm told that in Germany that's like misapplying the term 'Doctor': fobidden, and illegal if you do it to yourself.

[walkir]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

Yeah, you can get BEng/MEng/DEng over here, it's just we nasty tendency to apply the term 'engineer' to people who are actually technicians, whereas I'm told that in Germany that's like misapplying the term 'Doctor': fobidden, and illegal if you do it to yourself.

Yes. If you call yourself an Engineer proper (the academic degree) or anything else you have to study for without actually having that title, you can get up to one year in prison.
But that's only for the exact grades, I don't think anyone will sue you if you call yourself some denglish title including the term "engineer". A cand. Ing., Dipl-Ing., Dr. Ing. or any other degree is something else entirely. It's forbidden in the same law that says you aren't allowed to pretend being a doctor, cop or judge. Even the penalty is the same.

I guess it's because German economy is built on Engineering and an Engineer is a pretty respected title. They design jets or tanks, they don't actually go into the mud and build a bridge.

Edit: here (§132a) is the actual law in English.

[sgtcallistan]

Originally Posted by Michele

"Jagdpanzer" or "Panzerjäger" were indeed "tank hunters". i.e. "tank destroyers". "Assault guns" have their own term in German, which is "Sturmgeschütz" (I'm under the impression that "assault gun" in English actually was born as a translation of the German term).
Krieg is "war", Marine is "navy". While in English there is the "navy" and then the "merchant navy", in German there is the civilian "Marine" and then the "war navy".

'Assault rifle' is derived from the German Sturmgewher.
In the UK, we officially define between smaller-calibre assault rifles, smaller (5.56mm / .223 calibre) and 'battle rifles', such as the L1A1, which are semi-auto and 'full-bore' or 7.62mm / .303.
The AK series are routinely called assault rifles, though.

On 'kreigsmarine': there is an equivalent in English; the Royal Navy often referred to it's best battleships as 'the battle fleet'.
Effectively replacing the earlier term of 'line-of-battle ships'.
This as subset within 'the fleet' referring to all ships.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Darkwalker

We had ;) Actually the term Heer is a post WWII term

"Heer" was, of course, the army - the third armed force beyond the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine; Additionally, it was used in the German term that translates to "army group". In June 1941, the 16. and 18. Armeen were part of Heeresgruppe Nord.

[Darkwalker]

Originally Posted by Michele

"Heer" was, of course, the army - the third armed force beyond the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine; Additionally, it was used in the German term that translates to "army group". In June 1941, the 16. and 18. Armeen were part of Heeresgruppe Nord.

I agree with the Heeresgruppe etc. Not sure about the term "Heer" itself used, always considered that a post WWII thing.

Oh and the Heer is the FIRST force, everything else is secondary to it. Just like Infantry is the first within the ground forces. ;)

===============

And the Term "Doktor" in germany is the equivalent to a PhD, not to an MD. So you can be a "Doctor of Computer Science" (Doktor der Informatik" in Germany. Getting a Doktor title involves additional studies past the Master/Ingenieur/Diplom and writing a doctors thesis (The whole is called Promotion in german)

Just to confuse the issue ALL studied medical personal is commonly called Doktor (correct term is Arzt) even if they never went through the actual process of getting a title.