06-09-2021, 04:50 PM | #31 |
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
[QUOTE=Varyon;2383390]Errr... no? SSR roughly follows that equation, but just sets things somewhere close where the numbers aren't a mess, and then when you actually use the table, you round up to the nearest SSR - 32 yards is -8 Range, while the equation put it at around -7.03 (which would round to -7).
Here is the original post (note the author): Effectively this throws out the "If size falls between two values, base SM on the next-highest size." and "If the range falls between two values, use the higher; e.g., treat 8 yards as 10 yards" in the basic set.
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06-09-2021, 05:10 PM | #32 | |
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
Quote:
Simply ignore "base" in the above and just as casing Rain on a 1 hex costs you 1 FP (same as it covering 10 hexes) than having an area spell cover only one hex will cost 1 FP.
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06-09-2021, 06:57 PM | #33 | |
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Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
Quote:
Are you saying that a radius 1 spell contains the single hex that is the center of "effect" plus all surrounding adjacent hexes, or are you saying that the single radius spell is just the single "center" hex of effect, with the surrounding 6 hexes having zero effect? I went directly to pages 10 of GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition (for GURPS 3e) and page 13 of GURPS MAGIC for 4e. In each instance, there is an accompanying diagram that shows the center hex filled with the number 1, the next ring of hexes (the 6 adjacent hexes to the hex labeled as 1) with 2's, and each successive ring with 3 and 4 for purposes of illustrating a 1 hex radius spell, a 2 hex radius spell, a 3 hex radius spell, and a 4 hex radius spell. This illustration is effectively the same in both editions of GURPS MAGIC for area spells. GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition says this: "The area of effect of an area spell is a circle. The size of the circle depends on the energy put into the spell. (1) above is a single “ring” of hexes (i.e., 1 hex). Cost to cast the spell in this area is equal to base cost. (2) is an area equal to two rings of hexes — the center, and the ring around it. Cost to cast here is double base cost. (" GURPS MAGIC for 4e however, says this: "Area Spells on a Battle Map Represent Area spells on a battle map as follows. The area of effect of a spell cast over a one-yard radius is a single hex. The area of effect of a spell cast over a two-yard radius is a central hex and all adjacent hexes. The area of effect of a spell cast over a three yard radius is a central two-yard area of effect plus the ring of hexes adjacent to that. And so on, building up larger areas by annexing successive rings of hexes." Here we have both yard and hex used interchangeably in the same paragraph/box. |
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06-09-2021, 10:04 PM | #34 | ||
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
Quote:
By throwing in an actual yard radius into the text everything went pear-shaped The easiest way see the issue mathematically is to use the area of (use Area of Hexagon given inradius Calculator if you want to confirm the math) 0.8660 yd and compare it to radius and see what the difference is. Here are the results: *1 yd ((3.142-0.866*1)/6) 0.379 yd2 *2 yd ((12.57-0.866*7)/12) 0.542 yd2 *3 yd ((28.64-0.866*19)/18) 0.677 yd2 *4 yd ((50.27-0.866*37)/24) 0.7595 yd2 If you don't like that just use a straight edge and a compass. 1) Use the straight edge to find the center of a hexagon. 2) use the distance side to side (3 feet) to get the yard radius 3) moving to the center of the above hexagon draw circles of each yard radius More over way back in 2010 DouglasCole revealed that the "If size falls between two values, base SM on the next-highest size." and "If the range falls between two values, use the higher; e.g., treat 8 yards as 10 yards" in the basic set had been effectively thrown out: Quote:
Applying the nearly 11 year old rule change and setting the area of a hex as our 1 (ie 0.433 yd2 is our tipping point) we get this: *1 yd ((3.142-0.866*1)/6) 0.379 yd2; round down to 1 hex *2 yd ((12.57-0.866*7)/12) 0.542 yd2; round up to 19 hexes *3 yd ((28.64-0.866*19)/18) 0.677 yd2; round up to 37 hexes *4 yd ((50.27-0.866*37)/24) 0.7595 yd2; round up to 67 hexes
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06-09-2021, 11:25 PM | #35 | |
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
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06-10-2021, 12:06 AM | #36 | |
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
Quote:
DouglasCole back in 2010 changed the way the Speed/Range and Size adjustments were figured - he had you put the value into an equation and round to the nearest integer while the original method was to round up. Similarly, GURPS Thaumatology changed the rules for how Magery 0 worked; none of the examples in the Basic Set no longer work with either the mechanics or the cost now wrong. GURPS 4e is a living version of GURPS and like Classic before it there have been changes in the rules. There are even official optional takes on rules (such as Smooth cost for talents). I would like to point out that Magery and everything related to it comes of severely underpriced when compared to other talents if spells as skills was the only option: *One (1 skill): 2 points/level, max 3 *Small (6 or fewer related skills): 5 points/level. *Medium (7 to 12 related skills): 10 points/level. *Large (13 or more related skills): 15 points/level. *Smooth (minimum 5 points): 1 point/level per skill affected. As a Large talent Magery would be 5, 20, 35, 40 etc but with the ritual magic mechanic that reasoning falls down as spells are now techniques. So for everyone's sanity magery retains its old Classic pricing.
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06-10-2021, 01:14 AM | #37 | |
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Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
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But hey, if I reserve the right to do things my way, I can concede the right for others to do it their way too. ;) |
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10-27-2023, 06:14 AM | #38 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
Quote:
It's just a judgement call - "partial coverage doesn't count", not a mathematical statement. Most stuff you would be measuring in hex radius in reality, like say explosions or gas clouds, will have irregular edges anyway, not geometrical ones. Objections almost always come from spells (not just here but really for almost all game system measurement controversies), which the lack of anything reality checkable removes the obviousness that any measurements are approximations in the first place.
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10-27-2023, 08:06 AM | #39 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
Probably not funny enough to justify bringing back a thread that's been dead for over two years, but then spambots don't care about that, do they?
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11-01-2023, 05:23 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Hexes, real world measurements, and GURPS reality
You know it's odd that spambots can manage something that looks kind of like a contribution to the thread - which seems to require at least scanning and vaguely understanding it, but somehow can't check the date headers. It's not like there aren't currently active threads to pick to spam into. Anybody understand that?
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