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Old 06-08-2021, 09:01 PM   #1
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

How would you handle forms of traits like Chronic Pain, Vulnerability, Revulsion, Weakness, etc. which temporarily or permanently bestow additional disadvantages and/or attribute losses?

For example, Salsans have a Weakness to hot peppers. Even worse if they are reduced to 0 HP or less as a result of damage from exposure to hot peppers they permanently acquire the Bad Smell disadvantage. If they are reduced to -HP or less as a result of exposure to hot peppers and subsequently recover they automatically and permanently lose a point of HT.

My instinct is to base the value of such a limitation on the rules for bestowed Disadvantages for the Affliction advantage, further limited by the rules for Nuisance Effect and the rules for Potential Advantages. Base cost would be based on the point cost of the disadvantages or lost traits bestowed, reduced if the problems only affect you temporarily, or if there are limiting conditions which make onset less likely.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:05 AM   #2
talonthehand
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LFK
Default Re: How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

My first instinct is to price it the same way that you would price advantages that the character may get later but don't start with (heir or whatnot)....away from books so I don't remember what that discount is - if I had to guess I'd say either 50% or 20%.

Not sure how balanced it is, but it makes for nicely symmetrical bookkeeping.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:16 AM   #3
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
How would you handle forms of traits like Chronic Pain, Vulnerability, Revulsion, Weakness, etc. which temporarily or permanently bestow additional disadvantages and/or attribute losses?
You mean if, in your campaign, these disadvantages eventually led to additional disadvantages?

I would let the character take the given disadvantage, and if a side-effect disadvantage temporarily took effect, I would play out the effects of the disadvantage but not write anything on the character sheet.

If a side-effect disadvantage permanently took effect, I would write down the disadvantage and reduce the point total of the character.

I would count this as "Traits Gained in Play," p. B291.
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Old 06-09-2021, 08:06 AM   #4
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
For example, Salsans have a Weakness to hot peppers. Even worse if they are reduced to 0 HP or less as a result of damage from exposure to hot peppers they permanently acquire the Bad Smell disadvantage. If they are reduced to -HP or less as a result of exposure to hot peppers and subsequently recover they automatically and permanently lose a point of HT.
As a matter of gameplay and balance, I would not consider this much different from someone acquiring permanent disadvantages from a disease that can cause skin blisters reducing appearance and possibly lower stats. Or a missed fright check whether that fright check is the result of a phobia or something requiring a check from everyone.

I would generally not give points or adjust costs for this type of mechanic unless you expect it to be a frequent consideration in a particular campaign.
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Old 06-09-2021, 10:28 AM   #5
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

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Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
I would generally not give points or adjust costs for this type of mechanic unless you expect it to be a frequent consideration in a particular campaign.
The difference is that symptoms as a result of disadvantages are in addition to the usual expected effects of damage or a particular hazard and might be much more serious than the original problem.

That is, anyone might suffer reduced Appearance and health problems from smallpox, but if members of your species also permanently acquire the Bad Temper, Berserk, and -15 point Delusion disadvantages from the disease, you've got a much more serious problem.

Perhaps Quirks are the better way to model "potential disadvantages" which can be acquired due to certain types of injury. E.g., Will acquire Bad Smell if damage due to Vulnerability exceeds basic HP.

Conversely, the ability to automatically avoid some form of crippling injury, or some typical disadvantage associated with a particular injury, might be a Perk. For example, "No Appearance loss due to burns" or even "No Appearance loss."
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Old 06-09-2021, 10:37 AM   #6
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
You mean if, in your campaign, these disadvantages eventually led to additional disadvantages?
The station my train of thought left from was one of the races in the Farscape SF franchise and the fact that I have the Quirk: "Obsesses about how to model cinematic traits using GURPS."

In an early episode, the story was driven by the fact one of the characters was not only highly sensitive to overheating but her mental functions would collapse as a result, ultimately leading to permanent memory loss or even an irreversible coma.

In GURPS terms, the overheating problem is simply Vulnerability (Temperatures above N degrees) and/or Susceptibility (Heat Injury). The mental collapse is a bit trickier to model and I couldn't find an answer that satisfied me.
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Old 06-09-2021, 11:28 AM   #7
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

I'd be inclined to go one of two ways. The first would be a Quirk (that doesn't count against the character's limit of 5, if enforcing that) that essentially covers "character behaves differently than others due to this risk" (in the case of Farscape, Aeryn treats being outside her temperature comfort zone far more severely than do the other characters, on account of the consequences for Sebaceans that stay hot for too long); if the character actually acquires the Disadvantage, I'd refund them the difference between the Quirk and the Disadvantage, to be spent on Impulse Buys, Metagame Advantages, and/or some sort of thematic Advantage to go alongside the Disadvantage, like a character who gains Blindness getting Acute Hearing in the mix.

The other path would be to treat it similarly to Secret - you get some fraction of the value of the potential Disadvantage depending on how often the character is likely to be at risk of acquiring it, but if it does come into play, there's no further refund. If a character got [-20] for a trait that risked Blindness, and they gain Blindness, they effectively become a character worth [30] less than before.
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Old 06-09-2021, 07:24 PM   #8
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: How to stat disadvantages bestowed as symptoms?

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I'd be inclined to go one of two ways. The first would be a Quirk (that doesn't count against the character's limit of 5, if enforcing that) that essentially covers "character behaves differently than others due to this risk"
I think that one Quirk would suffice for both the injury mechanics and the character's reaction to the threat. For example, a boxer at risk of going blind due to further head blows might decide to hang up their gloves for good. If forced to fight, they will be incredibly protective of their head.

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
In the case of Farscape, Aeryn treats being outside her temperature comfort zone far more severely than do the other characters, on account of the consequences for Sebaceans that stay hot for too long.
Code:
OT: If there's one annoying plot hole in Farscape that I've noticed so far, it's the fact that for all that Sebaceans fear "heat death" they don't seem to have good institutional First Aid measures to prevent it. You'd think that every Sebacean ship would have at least one tub of ice water and a walk-in deep freezer on standby, in the same way that 21st century humans have AED stations in every public building. You'd also think that they'd treat their HVAC/life support techs like gods rather than peons. Clearly, the Peacekeeper version of OSHA is a pitiably funded afterthought. :)
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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
If the character actually acquires the Disadvantage, I'd refund them the difference between the Quirk and the Disadvantage, to be spent on Impulse Buys, Metagame Advantages, and/or some sort of thematic Advantage to go alongside the Disadvantage, like a character who gains Blindness getting Acute Hearing in the mix.
This would be a good option in cinematic games and for acquired disads which aren't utterly crippling. In grittier campaigns, the "You will suffer X disadvantage if you take more than Y HP loss from Z hazard" Quirk serves as a big, red flashing warning to the player to take proper protective measures. If you're stupid or unlucky enough to get caught without protection and suffer the consequences you can't say you weren't warned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
The other path would be to treat it similarly to Secret
That's not a bad approach, but depending on the potential disad and the likelihood of injury triggering it, 50% of the full potential disadvantage might be a bit too generous. For example, "Will permanently acquire Gluttony (12) if you are reduced below -HP due to Hunger" would be a huge point sink under the Secret mechanics.

Maybe the compromise is a leveled Quirk.
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