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Old 05-03-2021, 12:56 AM   #1
David Johnston2
 
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Default Corporate or Theocracy?

Suppose you have a world colonized by a group that started out as a "personal development company". They recruited members using MLM techniques, promising to teach them how to succeed in life, and after a certain point, moving on to using mind probe technology to remove memories that were "hampering their ability to make the most of themselves". Eventually things got a little hot for them on their original planet, so they bought a marginally habitable planet and colonized it before people's tolerance was entirely used up.

Here's the question, are they going to be classified as a corporate state, or a theocracy?
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Old 05-03-2021, 04:34 AM   #2
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

Why not both, as a combined society type?
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:13 AM   #3
Michele
 
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

Can you say that they have dogma, tenets, an unchallengeable hierarchy?
Remember that a theocratic government has a specific "backed-in" feature, and you'd probably have to adapt it somewhat in this special case.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:34 AM   #4
TGLS
 
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

I'd say the way to differentiate whether the government is a theocracy or a corporate republic is going to depend on one of these:
-> If the ruling class receives revelation and then makes new law, it's a theocracy
-> If the ruling class decides it wants to make a new law, and then uses interpretation and alleged revelation to justify it, then it's probably not a theocracy.
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGLS View Post
I'd say the way to differentiate whether the government is a theocracy or a corporate republic is going to depend on one of these:
-> If the ruling class receives revelation and then makes new law, it's a theocracy
-> If the ruling class decides it wants to make a new law, and then uses interpretation and alleged revelation to justify it, then it's probably not a theocracy.
Hmmm. A skeptic would say, then, that no theocracy ever existed... I'd look for practical parameters.
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:08 AM   #6
ericthered
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

I'd say that the route to power is what really differentiates a theocracy from some other kind of government. A theocracy is ruled by career priests, preachers, and religious scholars. A government with a theocratic element draws elements of its leadership from a religious background and profession.

So in the case of the OP, is the leadership of the company made primarily of people who are good teachers of the creed, or do they have a different background?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TGLS View Post
I'd say the way to differentiate whether the government is a theocracy or a corporate republic is going to depend on one of these:
-> If the ruling class receives revelation and then makes new law, it's a theocracy
-> If the ruling class decides it wants to make a new law, and then uses interpretation and alleged revelation to justify it, then it's probably not a theocracy.

I don't think the question of sincerity is a good test of if a government is a theocracy or not. And your current formulation doesn't admit for governments that don't claim to receive current revelation, but use interpretation for everything.
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Here's the question, are they going to be classified as a corporate state, or a theocracy?
I have a counter-question: does it matter? Aside from giving a possible range of Control Ratings, there is no mechanical effect of specifying a government type, so there's no reason you can't say it's a "Theocracy/Corporate State." The main point is to express to you and the players how society works. If you already know that, you don't have to stick to the rules.

A Theocracy is CR 3 to 6; a Corporate State is CR 4 to 6. So your Theocracy/Corporate State will be CR 4 to 6. Given that you've got brainwashing and definite resistance to their rules, I'd tend toward the upper end of that range.

A Theocracy is identified by rule through religious law. Does your colony have a religion? I don't think mind-alterations count as religion, just brainwashing. A Corporate State is where a company is the government and the citizens are employees. Are your colony's citizens employees of the state? Answering these questions will get you closer to a by-the-book answer.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:06 AM   #8
TGLS
 
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michele View Post
Hmmm. A skeptic would say, then, that no theocracy ever existed... I'd look for practical parameters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I don't think the question of sincerity is a good test of if a government is a theocracy or not. And your current formulation doesn't admit for governments that don't claim to receive current revelation, but use interpretation for everything.
I suppose I may have framed it badly. My conception is if enough of the arguments (some arguments must be practical; i.e. what to do about an invading enemy) the ruling class is making amongst itself are religious in nature (and not some kind of show for the general public), then it's a theocracy. This is almost useless in reality, but when you're a setting designer you get to know these things.

On the other hand, I think that there are only five or so political structures worth specifying in basic set, so what do I know?
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Old 05-03-2021, 10:52 AM   #9
maximara
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I have a counter-question: does it matter? Aside from giving a possible range of Control Ratings, there is no mechanical effect of specifying a government type, so there's no reason you can't say it's a "Theocracy/Corporate State." The main point is to express to you and the players how society works. If you already know that, you don't have to stick to the rules.

A Theocracy is CR 3 to 6; a Corporate State is CR 4 to 6. So your Theocracy/Corporate State will be CR 4 to 6. Given that you've got brainwashing and definite resistance to their rules, I'd tend toward the upper end of that range.

A Theocracy is identified by rule through religious law. Does your colony have a religion? I don't think mind-alterations count as religion, just brainwashing. A Corporate State is where a company is the government and the citizens are employees. Are your colony's citizens employees of the state? Answering these questions will get you closer to a by-the-book answer.
The most famous Corporate State IMHO is Brave New World and they way they revere Ford.
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Old 05-03-2021, 11:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: Corporate or Theocracy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I have a counter-question: does it matter? Aside from giving a possible range of Control Ratings, there is no mechanical effect of specifying a government type, ...
That depends. If you use GURPS Realm Management, then there is, definitely.
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