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Old 11-15-2023, 03:25 PM   #101
corwyn
 
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Default Re: supers: nine options

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Though I'd probably place it at -1/2, Champs tends to be more generous on limitation values.
Maybe. In a typical game, there are probably more ranged attacks than melee. This game seems to have a lot more thugs than supervillains so it depends on how common guns are. Also, I could see limiting the dcv to not work on robots and the like, maybe not even animals.
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Old 11-15-2023, 03:37 PM   #102
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Does the telepath have an Ego Attack? That would allow damage that ignores defenses. A 30-pt attack would have a reasonable chance to stun a normal, quite affordable if the mental powers are in a multipower.
No. I was going more for the feel of a lot of 1940s fiction and pseudoscience, where "telepathy" was primarily receptive, secondarily transmissive, and hardly at all capable of attacks. This telepath's combat advantages would come from knowing her foes' intentions before they made any overt move.
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Old 11-15-2023, 04:07 PM   #103
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No. I was going more for the feel of a lot of 1940s fiction and pseudoscience, where "telepathy" was primarily receptive, secondarily transmissive, and hardly at all capable of attacks. This telepath's combat advantages would come from knowing her foes' intentions before they made any overt move.
Then I guess a gun and a bunch of 2-pt levels with it.

BTW, 100 points in Champions (not to mention pulp supers) would be PL6 in M&M, not the PL 2 you tried making a character with. I don't know if you really gave it a fair shake.

Personal bias showing here. Champs was my go to supers system for 20 years (GURPS for virtually everything else) but I feel M&M can do anything Champs can do with less overhead.
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Old 11-15-2023, 07:54 PM   #104
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BTW, 100 points in Champions (not to mention pulp supers) would be PL6 in M&M, not the PL 2 you tried making a character with. I don't know if you really gave it a fair shake.
I'm not sure what you mean by "100 points." I built all these characters with a 50 point base. I allowed them up to 50 points in disadvantages; is that what you're referring to?

I don't remember if M&M has an equivalent of disadvantages. It seems as if we probably should be talking about PL3 characters.

However, I wasn't trying to say "X points in this system are equivalent to Y points in this other system." I was looking for a certain rough overall level of capability in terms partly of physical measurements and partly of ability to fight certain types of foes. Whatever number of points would allow that in system P was the point value for system P.
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Old 11-15-2023, 09:28 PM   #105
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I'm not sure what you mean by "100 points." I built all these characters with a 50 point base. I allowed them up to 50 points in disadvantages; is that what you're referring to?

I don't remember if M&M has an equivalent of disadvantages. It seems as if we probably should be talking about PL3 characters.

However, I wasn't trying to say "X points in this system are equivalent to Y points in this other system." I was looking for a certain rough overall level of capability in terms partly of physical measurements and partly of ability to fight certain types of foes. Whatever number of points would allow that in system P was the point value for system P.
Yeah, I was referring to total points in Champions. M&M doesn't have disad points; instead it has Complications which grant hero points when they come up. I generally find it more useful to compare total points since that seems like a better measure of total power/ability. Full Champs characters (250) are roughly comparable to PL 10. The numbers work fairly well. Much harder to do than in GURPS.
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Old 11-16-2023, 02:45 AM   #106
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Yeah, I was referring to total points in Champions. M&M doesn't have disad points; instead it has Complications which grant hero points when they come up. I generally find it more useful to compare total points since that seems like a better measure of total power/ability. Full Champs characters (250) are roughly comparable to PL 10. The numbers work fairly well. Much harder to do than in GURPS.
That would seem to argue for PL 4, then. Which would be a maximum Strength and Constitution of 18.

On the other hand, it seems that a brick would be able to purchase, say, ten levels of Super-Strength for 20 points, well within budget, and would thus have effective Strength of 68, for a heavy load of 150 tons. If that's legal, it's insanely higher than what I'm looking for.
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Old 11-16-2023, 03:50 PM   #107
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That would seem to argue for PL 4, then. Which would be a maximum Strength and Constitution of 18.

On the other hand, it seems that a brick would be able to purchase, say, ten levels of Super-Strength for 20 points, well within budget, and would thus have effective Strength of 68, for a heavy load of 150 tons. If that's legal, it's insanely higher than what I'm looking for.
That's fair, but in any open game system like this, the gm is there to put limits that aren't intrinsic to that system. Champions, M&M, Gurps all have this issue. For instance you could limit all powers by the PL of the game. Without that, in M&M, 20 pts in Speed would allow for 8000 feet for a full round of movement or about 1400 feet per second.

I'd forgotten about Superstrength. None of my players have ever tried anything like that.
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Old 11-16-2023, 04:35 PM   #108
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That's fair, but in any open game system like this, the gm is there to put limits that aren't intrinsic to that system. Champions, M&M, Gurps all have this issue. For instance you could limit all powers by the PL of the game. Without that, in M&M, 20 pts in Speed would allow for 8000 feet for a full round of movement or about 1400 feet per second.
Sure. But my criterion is that I want to build characters who have streetlevel, weakly superhuman capabilities, and spend the minimum number of points to pay for those capabilities. And whatever that number of points comes to is the proper point budget.
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Old 11-16-2023, 04:43 PM   #109
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Sure. But my criterion is that I want to build characters who have streetlevel, weakly superhuman capabilities, and spend the minimum number of points to pay for those capabilities. And whatever that number of points comes to is the proper point budget.
Then why build Champions characters on 50+50? You can build a character who can pick up an aircraft carrier on that budget. You won't be able to do much of anything else, of course, but the reality is that building a highly skilled normal person isn't cheap, and the actual powers aren't a terribly large component.
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Old 11-17-2023, 08:43 PM   #110
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Then why build Champions characters on 50+50? You can build a character who can pick up an aircraft carrier on that budget. You won't be able to do much of anything else, of course, but the reality is that building a highly skilled normal person isn't cheap, and the actual powers aren't a terribly large component.
I'm sure you could. On the other hand, I built my super-strong character on 75 points (including disadvantages), of which 15 went to Strength, and 10 each to Constitution and Body. Nearly as many, 29 in total, went to skills. Because my goal wasn't to produce a one-trick pony, but to produce a character that had more general adventuring skills (Breakfall, Combat Driving, Streetwise, and the jab and block from boxing) and a little bit of a life story. At that, she came out cheaper than any of the others.
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