[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: No-Mana Shutdown

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I had priced things assuming mana was Very Common for Dependency and even then that feels like a free 25pts. It's like "Dependency: Oxygen"... which makes me think that replacing a need for air with a need for mana seems like a fine feature (but I'd have to think further on what else that effects)

"Needs Mana instead of Oxygen" could be written as Doesn't Breathe + Sealed + Dependency (Mana, Constant, Very Common) for 0 points total.

[khorboth]

I haven't played with the disadvantage myself, but it could also be useful on an alternate form or summoned ally, I think.

Consider a werewolf who charges into a mana-free area only to find himself reverted to a naked, sad human.

Similarly, a summoned ally could have this disadvantage even if it's a living thing, being banished back from whence it came. The paladin could find himself mount-less in a magic-free or desecrated place. Or the wizard's imp familiar might poof back to the nine hells or wherever once the magical link is severed.

[Tyneras]

Reading this, I've realized that there is/was a small gap for the "Off, not dead" state. I was just reminded of all the clockwork being that shut down if not regularly wound up, or the Tinman from Oz and his rust issues. A generic disadvantage might be called for here.

Shutdown State [-20]
You instantly shutdown, but do not die, in response to the presence or absence of certain conditions. Multiply based on the frequency. Very Common (x2) such as rain, Common (x1.5), Occasional, such as No Mana Zones, (x1), Rare (x0.5)

Slow Shutdown (-50%) You have HT seconds before you shutdown, giving you time to attempt and escape or perform final actions.

Power Source (+0%) You have a power source that if not replenished results in immediate shutdown. Good for clockwork creatures that need frequent winding. By default this is equivalent to three meals per day. Use Reduced Consumption or Increased Consumption to change the frequency.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by maximara

GURPS Magic is incorrect. Sanctity based spells and magic items do work in no mana areas as long as the Sanctity is not none and even there there is a big exception: Objects of Power.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That's because even though they use magic mechanics they aren't magic. They're holy.

I was, indeed, referring specifically to magic items using the rules in GURPS Magic, not to holy items. One of my current PCs has a minor holy sword. Its "spells" are described using GURPS Magic, but its power comes not from mana, but from the gods (that is, its spells can be affected by the sanctity of an area, not by mana level).

[Plane]

Holy Relics in Fantasy are kinda interesting, the "Power" enchantment can apparently fuel a mage's spells (not just item's) for double cost (1000) and ther is a 750 energy tier for fueling multiple spells from item instead of 1.

Which has some relevance to previous discussions I've seen about whether "Power" needs to be bought multiple times for multi-spell enchanted objects...

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

someone can Mana Dampener near you and there's nothing you can do if you don't know they have it.

Well I guess you could have:

Mana Enhancer (switchable, reflexive)
or:
Affliction (Melee, Aura, Area Effect, Reflexive, Negated Advantage: Mana Damper)

Reflexive neutralize perhaps too?

Kinda wonder if DR w/ reflection (per following power parry rules and GURPS Sorcery) should work against other "ranged" enhanced attacks beyond the basic 3 afflict/bind/IA

Originally Posted by maximara

Not exactly. You ean "build" them via the Magic Items as advantages/characters as seen Thaumatology p. 120

I mean the unique rules for creating sanctity. T120 is only about objects as characters, so you'd still need an advantage to reflect OOP creating Sanctity fields. Did we ever get a bit about a variant of Mana Enhancer existing for that?

Originally Posted by maximara

Unless you actually put in the No-Mana Shutdown [-20] disadvantage (as for the Harp example) or Mana Sensitive (-10%) limitation mana and sanctity have no effect on the item (the item is effectively technological in nature or boosts the mana/sanctity level)

But which advantage lets them do that?

Originally Posted by maximara

"Objects of Power are Holy Objects with a special difference: they create an area of High or Very High Sanctity about themselves, with all attendant benefits for the cleric. They represent the presence of the deity itself. They are exceedingly rare." R107

"Very High Sanctity: The area directly surrounding the presence of the deity, a shrine, a temple, a church, or any holy place consecrated to the deity, particular to the religion." R102

So basically an Object of Power (Minor) is akin to a poor man's version of a mobile temple and an Object of Power (Major) is effectively a mobile temple.

Right, so if a temple's base power results in lower effective power due to interference I would expect OOP base power to similarly output lower effective power due to interference.

Originally Posted by maximara

Now when you take Object of Power (Major) into a opposing deity's temple (say the Ark to a temple of Zeus or any other pagan deity) the deity with the larger sphere wins the contest (in this example it would be YHWH). Of course doing something this crazy would likely result in you now having a new enemy and Terminally Ill (Darwin Award) :-)

Where can I find the explanation of sphere v sphere? Not sure how this would play out.

Originally Posted by maximara

Things get really squirrely if deities can "split" due to schisming. Something like this happed to DC's Uncle Sam who during the Civil War was broken into Billy Yank and Johnny Reb. More over thanks to the two issue mini Uncle Sam we know Columbia is a separate being and Spectre's comic showed the same was true for Brother Johnathan. So during the Civil War in the DCU you had Columbia, Brother Johnathan, Billy Yank, and Johnny Reb all running around with different degrees of power.

It does feel like more ought to matter (like respective deity power) than just the number of them, in sanc v sanc butting.

Originally Posted by maximara

Of course this either results a whole bucket of Christian "One true gods" running around or that one deity having a real bad case of Dissociative identity disorder.

Could have one deity with cohesive identity who just wants the struggle to enrich everyone's DX

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Plane

I mean the unique rules for creating sanctity. T120 is only about objects as characters, so you'd still need an advantage to reflect OOP creating Sanctity fields. Did we ever get a bit about a variant of Mana Enhancer existing for that?

You can build one. :-) Though to get it to work you have to remove the 2 level limit and then figure out what the enhancement 'not effected by local mana' is costwise.

Divine Ritual Magic T71 and related material (The Temple of Hephaestus) goes into the mechanics on this but there are scattered around the book making it somewhat a PITA to put the pieces together. But this is effective what is in Religion.

"Any blacksmith’s forge or metalworker’s workshop can be temporarily sanctified in the normal way by an ordinary or high priest (but not by anyone else), as can any small room with stone or brick walls and a fire burning in the center."

"Higher sanctity levels are usually associated with consecrated ground or space. Since consecration is something that mortal priests can perform, mortals can – with effort – modify sanctity. (...) Note that these rules apply to mortals. The gods themselves can change sanctity with considerably less effort. Simply standing somewhere for a moment usually suffices!" T69

The methods provided on T68 are effectively a variation of what is in R103's side box.

Originally Posted by Plane

Could have one deity with cohesive identity who just wants the struggle to enrich everyone's DX

This is effectively impossible under the "everything" option under "What Deities Get From Their Followers" More over the Christian god depending on the denomination/bible passage is Benevolent, Malevolent (Job's test), Meddlesome, Indifferent, Observant, Oblivious, Forthright, Mysterious, and/or Coda. They all can't be correct unless something akin to what is true of Hindu gods is going on.

Think how gods work in Pratchett Discworld series and that gives you the core mechanic of this. In fact, “It is said that men may not be the dreams of the god, but rather that the gods are the dreams of men.” - Hindu religion summation by Carl Sagan

In fact, Hinduism has a kind of nested Russian doll aspect where each step down is a more limited aspect. In the example given you have Shakti->Parvati->Durga->Kali. "They are usually depicted as distinct goddesses but they are also the same entity taking on more specific forms"

For the variation aspect there is a piece on Aphrodite with a variant (Aphrodite Areia) that wasn't the lover of the god of war because she was the goddess of war! This varient was worshiped in Sparta (of course).

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

"Needs Mana instead of Oxygen" could be written as Doesn't Breathe + Sealed + Dependency (Mana, Constant, Very Common) for 0 points total.

That actually comes out to 10pts which lines up with my gut instinct of how much this 'feature' would cost (-25 for Dependency, 20 for Doesn't Breathe, 15 for Sealed).

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

That actually comes out to 10pts which lines up with my gut instinct of how much this 'feature' would cost (-25 for Dependency, 20 for Doesn't Breathe, 15 for Sealed).

I'm not sure why, but I always think Sealed is just 5 points even if I've just looked it up.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

I'm not sure why, but I always think Sealed is just 5 points even if I've just looked it up.

Considering how well DR1 can stop contact agents I get that. One neat thing that lines up is Doesn't Breathe with NMS. For 0 points you don't have to worry about breathing but pass out instantly when there is no mana.

[AlexanderHowl]

DR 1 does not stop Contact Agent or Blood Agent that possess Cone or Area Effect though, as they ignore all DR. It also protects against any corrosive attack that does requires physical contact to work, like an acid.