GURPS Releases seem to be slow?

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by mehrkat

I not sure whether this puts me in the minority but I would rather see a GURPS vehicle system that is much more like Spaceships.

or a "spaceships" series that took different time periods
Maybe "high tech", "modern", "ultra-tech" (for smaller ships)
with lens books
biotech, magic tech, super science, steam-punk

But spaceships makes a great framework.

Then when they finished may a computer program that combined them all and allowed them to choose or make a shape and fill it with the rules and points being calculated as you go.
-- sorry got lost in a fantasy there for a moment :)

There's a pyramid article that expands the Spaceship system to cover more generic vehicles. Issue 34, I believe. FYI (if you didn't already know)

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by mehrkat

I not sure whether this puts me in the minority but I would rather see a GURPS vehicle system that is much more like Spaceships.

or a "spaceships" series that took different time periods
Maybe "high tech", "modern", "ultra-tech" (for smaller ships)
with lens books
biotech, magic tech, super science, steam-punk

But spaceships makes a great framework.

I've done a lot of this already in Spaceships 8 (Divergent and Paranormal Tech) which lets you build all kinds of time periods like sky galleons or even biotech space amoebas and then in Pyramid #3-34 (Alternate Spaceships) where i add things like gasoline engines, tracks, wheels, flexibody, screw propellers, ground, water and submarine movement, and so on, and statted out an Aegis-type naval destroyer.

I agree that the Spaceships "simple modular" approach is a LOT easier to use than Vehicles. I've thought of proposing a dedicated book supporting it, but it will have to wait until after Vehicle Design is finished.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

I've done a lot of this already in Spaceships 8 (Divergent and Paranormal Tech) which lets you build all kinds of time periods like sky galleons or even biotech space amoebas and then in Pyramid #3-34 (Alternate Spaceships) where i add things like gasoline engines, tracks, wheels, flexibody, screw propellers, ground, water and submarine movement, and so on, and statted out an Aegis-type naval destroyer.

I agree that the Spaceships "simple modular" approach is a LOT easier to use than Vehicles. I've thought of proposing a dedicated book supporting it, but it will have to wait until after Vehicle Design is finished.

Yep it's my favorite book in the series. The problem is there is no rules for using ship-shaped vessels as sea-going ships. I've asked about this several times but have never received a answer. It's one of those things I think is super important and a hole in a otherwise awesome system. Thoughts Mr. Pulver?

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Yep it's my favorite book in the series. The problem is there is no rules for using ship-shaped vessels as sea-going ships. I've asked about this several times but have never received a answer. It's one of those things I think is super important and a hole in a otherwise awesome system. Thoughts Mr. Pulver?

There aren't super detailed rules, but Pyramid 3-34 (p. 6) does have the sea performance rules for screw propellers for surface and underwater speed, as well as the rules for sub ballast tanks (p. 7) and naval torpedoes (p. 9). That should be enough to do basic ships, as in the example.

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

We call it "GURPS Vehicles" because the previous edition was called the same and it's good shorthand, but it's not: It's the GURPS Vehicles Design System. It would surprise me if it also contained expanded rules for actually using vehicles.

That's correct. It's about the same size as the old book (200+ pages).

There are a few extra detail rules (things like operating at crush depth, say) plus plentiful rules for using all the built-in subsystems but in general it's the 4e revision of the design system plus the design rules from the Expansions.

Detailed rules for, say, dogfights or hexgrid resolution of vehicle action, will wait for a dedicated supplement, since GURPS Basic Set already covers it to a decent degree, and that sort of expanded rules set is not necessarily just for Vehicle Design - you could be using existing vehicles from Basic, High Tech, etc.

PS: Due to changed circumstances, I now plan on devoting time to Vehicle Design next month, with the aim of moving the project significantly forward.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

There aren't super detailed rules, but Pyramid 3-34 (p. 6) does have the sea performance rules for screw propellers for surface and underwater speed, as well as the rules for sub ballast tanks (p. 7) and naval torpedoes (p. 9). That should be enough to do basic ships, as in the example.

I've actually used those before for a water-dwelling species' spaceship. What I was asking is how can I used that to get statistics for a sailing ship? Have I overlooked something? Would sails/rigging count as a system/design switch/feature? If so what would the cost and other stats be? What would the speed of such a vessel on water be? This is pretty much the only thing stopping me from creating fantasy airships like those seen in early Final Fantasy games, the Stardust movie, etc.

Edit: And thank you for responding! I highly appreciate it. :-)

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by SCAR

I'm curious as to what other rules systems have an equivalent Vehicles Book, or substantial rules for creating vehicles in any of their existing books?

From a cursory search, Vehicle books seem to be more of a 3rd party product, and mainly catalogs, rather than core design rules from the systems main publisher.

A detailed simulation-type rather than effects-based Vehicle Design book is a complex beast, especially if it covers armed and equipped vehicles of all sizes and all technologies, as such a creature inevitably turns into a "technological infrastructure book" for the game system.

"Spaceship Design" books are simpler as the physics of spaceships are fairly simple (at least in vacuum), and being future tech, they can be tailored to a specific setting and there is less in the way of realism to worry about. Lots of SF games have pretty detailed spaceship books, even including oldies like FASA's Star Trek and GDW's 2300.

As far as I know, the only complete systems besides GURPS Vehicles are:

1) the various Traveller systems, all of which have included vehicle design systems; the most detailed was probably the TNE iteration in the form of Frank Chadwick's Fire Fusion and Steel.

2) Greg Porter's detailed VDS (for CORPS) which also had a weapon design system book, and more recently its simpler cousin Stuff.

In a related stream Car Wars (as a hybrid board game and RPG) had a pretty full system for anything smaller than a ship. Battletech was more limited, but did cover a fair number of vehicle types besides mechs in various supplements, such as fighters and tanks. Both focused on one specific "tech level" and milieu however.

There are several broad effects-based vehicle design books or rules: Hero has one, I did d20 Mecha as well as Big Robots, Cool Starships; the Silhouette system (Heavy Gear / Jovian Chronicles etc.) is another very detailed and well-worked-out version of this, and certainly the most successful. There are also -modular fill-in-the-slots design systems, of which the most comprehensive is, I think, Mekton Zeta, but there are lots of others for different d20 games, some versions of Shadowrun, etc.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

1) the various Traveller systems, all of which have included vehicle design systems; the most detailed was probably the TNE iteration in the form of Frank Chadwick's Fire Fusion and Steel.

The T4 iteration of FF&S was more detailed, if almost totally unusable due to the incompetence of IG at editing, layout, and typesetting.

[adm]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

PS: Due to changed circumstances, I now plan on devoting time to Vehicle Design next month, with the aim of moving the project significantly forward.

I hope things are alright. This is good news for us.

[Grouchy Chris]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

PS: Due to changed circumstances, I now plan on devoting time to Vehicle Design next month, with the aim of moving the project significantly forward.

Woot! Woot, I say!