Conjuring a carriage to splat the bad guy!

[cupbearer]

Been playing a campaign with a mage who can conjure objects (Realm system from Thaumatology)

In a battle he wanted to conjure a carriage , pay a range penalty to have it appear over bad guys head.

I didnt know how to handle this. If you cost it out by weight the thing is way too cheap. Should i charge him based on the dice of damage it would inflict?

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by cupbearer

I didnt know how to handle this. If you cost it out by weight the thing is way too cheap. Should i charge him based on the dice of damage it would inflict?

That was the suggestion when it came up in a Ritual Path Magic (RPM) thread. I came up with an alternative option in the form of Potential Energy, which may be of use to you - see here. I don't know anything about Realm magic, however, so I'm not certain how that would translate.

[Anaraxes]

Sounds good to me. Creating a rock to fall on someone's head as an intentional attack shouldn't be cheaper than creating a rock to throw at them (from the Earth Realm, say). Charge according to the more expensive path, and the degree of munchkinism should drop.

Also worth keeping in mind that it's not a particular fast or sneaky attack, and so isn't guaranteed to hit. Or even accurate. (An improvised weapon, perhaps.)

Though I'd most be inclined simply to say "no". Want an attack, pay for the attack. My group is fortunately pretty good about not arguing the letter of the rules to try to get an edge in some distorted manner.

[Anthony]

In general I assume conjuring objects does so in the natural location for such objects, which is on the ground unless the object naturally flies.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Anthony

In general I assume conjuring objects does so in the natural location for such objects, which is on the ground unless the object naturally flies.

How 'naturally' do you mean? Would plumbata (weighted darts) count, for example?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

How 'naturally' do you mean?

Natural according to Aristotle. :)

[ravenfish]

Add me to the list of people who say that, if a spell is cast such that it will immediately cause damage, the cost of the spell should include that damage- if you create a sphere of fire to burn your foe, you pay for damage on top of Create Energy; if you create a carriage to crush your foe, you pay for damage on top of Create Matter. Blame Newton or Aristotle depending on the tech level of the campaign, but, ultimately, you get what you pay for.

[Donny Brook]

It seems to me this is a slippery slope.

If you conjure the carriage on a hillside, it will roll down. Do you charge for the resulting Slam damage or for the rolling carriage?

If you Create Fire under a gas tank, it might blow up the gas tank. Do you charge for the fire, the damage to the tank, or the resulting explosion.

If you're above someone and you conjure a plumbata out in front of you, and it falls and hits them, why should that be different than if you're on the ground but it's still within your casting range?

As a GM, my opinion is you've got to let the players get the benefit (and consequences) of the natural results of the universe and avoid being stingy based on gamist logic.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

It seems to me this is a slippery slope.

If you conjure the carriage on a hillside, it will roll down. Do you charge for the resulting Slam damage or for the rolling carriage?

If you Create Fire under a gas tank, it might blow up the gas tank. Do you charge for the fire, the damage to the tank, or the resulting explosion.

If you're above someone and you conjure a plumbata out in front of you, and it falls and hits them, why should that be different than if you're on the ground but it's still within your casting range?

As a GM, my opinion is you've got to let the players get the benefit (and consequences) of the natural results of the universe and avoid being stingy based on gamist logic.

That would be my assessment... Of course, if you try to conjure something over someone you'll have range penalties, the target will have time to react (dropping takes a second or two), and it will end up being a delayed ranged attack for which you roll to hit the area when you cast, but anything in that area will have a 1+ seconds to jump out of the way

[cupbearer]

Originally Posted by naloth

That would be my assessment... Of course, if you try to conjure something over someone you'll have range penalties, the target will have time to react (dropping takes a second or two), and it will end up being a delayed ranged attack for which you roll to hit the area when you cast, but anything in that area will have a 1+ seconds to jump out of the way

Dropping takes no time at all. Hes conjuring it in mid air. Its such a big object i cant see how it would miss though possibly they could jump out of the way.
If I charge for the weight, then this is the only attack theyll ever want to make which is the issue I think.