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Old 02-07-2008, 12:46 PM   #31
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Comment on Close Combat 1


One thing I note in this example is that you don't roll the hit location until after one succeeds or fails a defense. BUT...if you're, say, kicking at an opponent's leg who only knows boxing, he's at a penalty to defend.

[Possibly bad example, as boxing is bad vs all kicks, not just low-line ones]

I think you need to resolve hit location before you roll the defenses, so that any special cases brought about by particular skill use are taken into consideration before rolling success/failure.

[Possible also that in Basic Set, this isn't necessary. Personally, I don't know that I'd give a boxer a penalty to defend against a high kick, esp to the head, but the low-line stuff, probably. Still, not basic set, so mostly disregard this one]
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Last edited by DouglasCole; 02-07-2008 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:52 PM   #32
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Great comments DouglasCole, things I will definitely keep in mind as I continue these examples; I'll try to give the combatants a better sense of tactics as things progress.

It's a very fine line to walk - the focus of these examples is to illustrate the concrete application of the rules as written, not necessarily to show the best use of the combat maneuvers from the PC's perspective. Very close, but not identical, goals, so sometimes the combatants don't choose the best option available (especially in the first few, a lot of times characters just do a simple Dodge or Parry instead of Retreating, even though Retreating would be the smart thing to do).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
...either grappling or just going for the field goal to the jewels might well be the right call.
Lol, owie!
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Comment on Close Combat 2

I think in the beginning of Turn 2, after the successful Judo Parry, that Arthur should do a Deceptive Judo Attack, lowering his skill from 20 to 16 for a -2 to Zach's defense. This would have resulted in a successful grapple attack in your example. You may wish to point this out in a parenthetical.

If your effective melee skill is above 16 when all is said and done, it makes no sense not to take a few voluntary minuses to get your skill down to 16, since 17/18 fail and crit fail automatically anyway.

While retreat/non-retreat are valid calls in spacing and distance, proper use of high skill is essential. GURPS added Deceptive Attack specifically to give high-skill guys more reason to have high skill.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
Comment on Close Combat 1

One thing I note in this example is that you don't roll the hit location until after one succeeds or fails a defense. BUT...if you're, say, kicking at an opponent's leg who only knows boxing, he's at a penalty to defend.

[Possibly bad example, as boxing is bad vs all kicks, not just low-line ones]

I think you need to resolve hit location before you roll the defenses, so that any special cases brought about by particular skill use are taken into consideration before rolling success/failure.
Hmm ... ya know, that's never come up to me before, probably because the majority of defenses don't have penalties based on Hit Location.

I'll probably leave it as-is though, since I'm striving for strict "RAW-compliance":

"(B400) You never have to target a hit location - you can always just strike at 'whatever target presents itself'. To do so, attack with no modifier for hit location. If you hit, and your foe fails to defend, roll 3d on the appropriate hit location table to find out where the blow fell"
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:09 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
Hmm ... ya know, that's never come up to me before, probably because the majority of defenses don't have penalties based on Hit Location.

I'll probably leave it as-is though, since I'm striving for strict "RAW-compliance":

"(B400) You never have to target a hit location - you can always just strike at 'whatever target presents itself'. To do so, attack with no modifier for hit location. If you hit, and your foe fails to defend, roll 3d on the appropriate hit location table to find out where the blow fell"
Could be. Consider, though, that you may be attacking (for example) the right arm or something and you can't use that side to parry. Or it's the shield side and cover bonuses apply. I could just see bonuses or penalties coming up based on flavor text. Your way is RAW though, but I can see a few holes in how it's done.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
Comment on Close Combat 2

If your effective melee skill is above 16 when all is said and done, it makes no sense not to take a few voluntary minuses to get your skill down to 16, since 17/18 fail and crit fail automatically anyway.
Good point - I think there's only a couple/few examples with skills that high, but you're right, no reason to 'waste' effective points above 16 when you can get a 'free' penalty to the other guys' defenses. I'll go back through them after lunch with an eye to this.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:11 PM   #37
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Comment on Close Combat 3:

One thing about this whole scenario is that it starts before the Broadsword guy gets his sword out. Smart move on Karate-guy's part.

Start them far enough apart to have the weapon out (or even Broadsword and Knife/Main-Gauche) and Karate-guy is in rather more trouble, as he's going to be facing two enweaponed parries each turn.

Very different outcomes possible. however, the tactics used for the scenario as presented are excellent, and really show the best way for unarmed to defeat armed. Hit 'im BEFORE he's armed:

"You just shot an unarmed man!"

"...he shoulda armed himself then."
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:12 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
Good point - I think there's only a couple/few examples with skills that high, but you're right, no reason to 'waste' effective points above 16 when you can get a 'free' penalty to the other guys' defenses. I'll go back through them after lunch with an eye to this.
Thus far, this is the only example where it's come up AND made a difference.
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Errors in Ranged 3:

At the failed unconsciousness check, Zachs effective HT is 9, not 10. You get -1 to avoid unconsciousness for every full multiple of -HP (BS 419).

Also, when Zach empties his gun, you made a copy-paste error (he fired 6, not 15 shots).
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Old 02-07-2008, 06:13 PM   #40
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole
Thus far, this is the only example where it's come up AND made a difference.
Cool thanks - saved me the trouble of having to read through all nine. I switched Arthur to a Deceptive Attack, though I then lowered Zach's Parry so he would still make it (to avoid having to rewrite more than a little).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smirg
Errors in Ranged 3:

At the failed unconsciousness check, Zachs effective HT is 9, not 10. You get -1 to avoid unconsciousness for every full multiple of -HP (BS 419).

Also, when Zach empties his gun, you made a copy-paste error (he fired 6, not 15 shots).
Great finds Smirg, thanks - fixed, and fixed.
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