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Old 08-23-2023, 02:03 AM   #1
Keyboardstalker
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Default NFM character using guns mounted to their body

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but I haven't found anything in the basic set that would give me what I'm looking for.

I'm planning on running a game in a universe where most of the characters would be quadrupeds with the No Fine Manipulators disadvantage, but are still able to use guns with a special harness that allows them to actuate the trigger by biting down. Should I handle this by treating it as a vehicle weapon with a fixed or hardpoint mount, and use the Gunner skill? Or would it be better to just have them use the guns skill as normal for the sake of simplicity? Am I missing something or am i just over complicating this?
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Old 08-23-2023, 03:48 AM   #2
sir_pudding
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

It's a fixed mount, B467, and can only shoot in one direction (presumably front).

It should be a new speciality of Guns for small arms.
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Old 08-24-2023, 02:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
It's a fixed mount, B467, and can only shoot in one direction (presumably front).

It should be a new speciality of Guns for small arms.
Could this be expressed in game as them only being able to fire in a 60 degree arc like if they took the tunnel vision disadvantage?
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Old 08-24-2023, 03:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

I would just use Extra Arms (Weapon Mount -80%) [2]
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Old 08-24-2023, 06:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

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Originally Posted by Keyboardstalker View Post
Could this be expressed in game as them only being able to fire in a 60 degree arc like if they took the tunnel vision disadvantage?
Like it's a fixed weapon mount. I don't think Tunmel Vision is relevant (unless using the Harsh Realism rule and a scope)

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I would just use Extra Arms (Weapon Mount -80%) [2]
This seems like equipment, not an ability. As an ability it would be payload (see Changing Times for examples of weapons bays as payload) not Weapon Mount, because it's nit articulated.
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Old 08-24-2023, 08:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
This seems like equipment, not an ability.
The ability is being able to use the gear with NFM. Guns do not normally come with any hands-free operation mode, and thus the result of trying to use a mounted gun is "you fail".
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Old 08-25-2023, 01:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Like it's a fixed weapon mount. I don't think Tunmel Vision is relevant (unless using the Harsh Realism rule and a scope)
How does a fixed weapon mount work exactly? Because on p.B467 it says it can only fire in one direction. Considering there’s only 6 directions you can face on a hex grid, and 360 / 6 = 60, is it reasonable to assume that each direction would cover a 60 degree arc?

I’m not saying it would give them tunnel vision, they’d still be able to see beyond the cone, but to shoot past that 60 degree arc would require them to change their facing as though they did have it. Guess it’s my bad for bringing up tunnel vision and confusing things.

Last edited by Keyboardstalker; 08-25-2023 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 08-23-2023, 04:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

I'd probably have it be a new specialty of Guns. The details of aiming might result in two (possibly more) specialties of Guns, however. Is it a truly fixed mount, such that the character has to aim by shifting their body? Or is it something that can track their head movement (possibly meaning it's actually mounted to the head; this might only be an option for low-powered firearms, like pistols and maybe SMG's/PCC's) to shoot at what they are looking at? Those seem like they'd be two different specialties - Guns (Fixed) and Guns (Gaze), with the latter possibly sharing a default with Innate Attack (Gaze) (much as I've suggested in the past a Guns (Wrist) sharing a default with Innate Attack (Projectile)).

At lower TL's (probably up through TL 8 or so), Aiming would require some sort of drop-down sights. If we imagine the weapon simply as a more traditional one mounted upside down, you'd just install a riser of appropriate size to get the actual sights - iron, reflex, scope, whatever - down to eye level (note this means the weapon needs to be long enough for the barrel to project out in front of your face; a back-mounted pistol you aren't going to be able to use the sights for unless you've got some sort of extender that does project out far enough). For Guns (Gaze), at lower TL's you'd probably be restricted to head-mounted if you want to get full Acc out of the weapon, as the sights aren't going to line up when your head is turned (you'll get full Acc - and be able to use the scope - only when you are positioned as though it were a fixed mount). HUD links would avoid this drawback, so for TL 9+, Guns (Gaze) may be the way to go. I'm not sure if a back-mounted weapon would have reduced ST requirements or increased ones, honestly, although I suspect those that track your head movement would have higher ST requirements (recoil would be harder to deal with when firing off-center).
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Last edited by Varyon; 08-23-2023 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 08-23-2023, 12:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I'd probably have it be a new specialty of Guns. The details of aiming might result in two (possibly more) specialties of Guns, however. Is it a truly fixed mount, such that the character has to aim by shifting their body? Or is it something that can track their head movement (possibly meaning it's actually mounted to the head; this might only be an option for low-powered firearms, like pistols and maybe SMG's/PCC's) to shoot at what they are looking at? Those seem like they'd be two different specialties - Guns (Fixed) and Guns (Gaze), with the latter possibly sharing a default with Innate Attack (Gaze) (much as I've suggested in the past a Guns (Wrist) sharing a default with Innate Attack (Projectile)).

At lower TL's (probably up through TL 8 or so), Aiming would require some sort of drop-down sights. If we imagine the weapon simply as a more traditional one mounted upside down, you'd just install a riser of appropriate size to get the actual sights - iron, reflex, scope, whatever - down to eye level (note this means the weapon needs to be long enough for the barrel to project out in front of your face; a back-mounted pistol you aren't going to be able to use the sights for unless you've got some sort of extender that does project out far enough). For Guns (Gaze), at lower TL's you'd probably be restricted to head-mounted if you want to get full Acc out of the weapon, as the sights aren't going to line up when your head is turned (you'll get full Acc - and be able to use the scope - only when you are positioned as though it were a fixed mount). HUD links would avoid this drawback, so for TL 9+, Guns (Gaze) may be the way to go. I'm not sure if a back-mounted weapon would have reduced ST requirements or increased ones, honestly, although I suspect those that track your head movement would have higher ST requirements (recoil would be harder to deal with when firing off-center).
Itís a setting that does have power armor, so maybe the normal ones youíd find most people using could be the fixed mount variant that you have to aim by shifting your body, meanwhile the power armor variant could have head tracking and a HUD link?

Another feature of the setting is they have specially designed pistols that they shoot with their mouths. Again, not the most realistic, but itís a feature of the setting. I think that could easily just be another specialty for Guns.
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Old 08-23-2023, 12:40 PM   #10
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Default Re: NFM character using guns mounted to their body

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Originally Posted by Keyboardstalker View Post
Itís a setting that does have power armor, so maybe the normal ones youíd find most people using could be the fixed mount variant that you have to aim by shifting your body, meanwhile the power armor variant could have head tracking and a HUD link?
It actually occurred to me that you don't necessarily need the risers to be able to use the weapon's sights - you could have a sight of some sort (I imagine Reflex/Red Dot would work best) built into the helmet. For normal ones, you might have it setup so the sight signals to you when you're actually in-line with the aimpoint of the weapon; for the ones that track head movement, you may be able to design it so the dot moves appropriately as they move their head back and forth (heck, that should be just as doable for fixed-mount). You'd want that sight to be retractable (particularly if it's a scope), perhaps using your tongue to flip a switch or something (Heinlein had some bits in Starship Troopers where the Mobile Infantry used their mouths in various ways to work some of their gear that might be worthwhile here). Subvocal commands would also work. But, yeah, fixed mounts normally and head-tracking mounts for those in power armor or similar would work.

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Originally Posted by Keyboardstalker View Post
Another feature of the setting is they have specially designed pistols that they shoot with their mouths. Again, not the most realistic, but itís a feature of the setting. I think that could easily just be another specialty for Guns.
I'd probably have it use my suggested Guns (Gaze) skill, as it would track with your head. I'm assuming this is in the form on headgear; if it's something they actually pick up with their mouth and fire using their tongue (firing by biting down harder is going to result in a lot of ND's; tongue-firing may as well, but not as much), that would probably be its own skill... and call for a trip to the dentist.

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Presumably they can rely on having someone around to put the harness on and remove it for them?
Depending on TL, the harness may be able to attach itself - just wiggle in and activate it with your voice and it secures itself, ready to go.
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