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Old 07-30-2021, 02:27 PM   #21
johndallman
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
C31R07 doesn't have the Switchable enhancement on his, does that mean it will cause some problems when he uses his Shapeshifting: Alternate Form advantage?
GM decision. Since C31R07 does not drastically re-arrange himself when he switches, there's no need. for Switchable. That's for Transformers-level changes.
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Old 07-30-2021, 02:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
track ingested food and water as encumbrance until it's left the body (as exhaled CO2/H2O, sweat, feces, and/or urine), sure. I'm pretty certain most tables don't do that, however.
I sorta like the idea, otherwise you'd have people forcefeeding their rations instead of carrying them around.

A single level of Natural Pockets / Payload at BL20 (ST 10) is only two pounds, and apparently humans eat 3-4 pounds of food a day on average, so we might assume there's like a "free built in perk" of Natural Pockets in the stomach and 2nd point spread out throughout the intestinal tract.

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There's also justification for treating something carried internally as just part of one's body rather than as separate weight, because realistically it is easier to carry, say, water in your stomach than in a CamelBak (at least so long as you didn't drink too much, but that's a different problem).
It might be easier (closer to your centre of mass) but you can't put it down (you can put your rucksack/waterbottle down) which would definitely be less fatiguing.

Maybe a compromise for realistic natural pockets is something like halving the object's weight for encumbrance-totalling?

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It's an edge case, but simply applying the Hurting Yourself rules (with cutting rather than crushing damage) on such attacks is an option.
You mean like if I do a Mordhau and inflict 5 crushing it does 1 cutting to my hand?

Cutting always does a minimum of 1 damage though, so would you still take 1 cutting even for 0-4 crushing?

Also not sure how we would apply this to parrying, since using a Mordhau grip on a sword to parry attacks probably risks cutting you too...

Heck even missing or lugging the sword around without doing attacks/parries probably has that risk.

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Handwaving is typically going to be fine. If the compartment is likely to be locked, sealed, or simply covered by something very heavy, you could call for a roll (or at least, in the last case, determine if the seacher's BL is sufficient to shift the fat roll or whatever), but typically I'd say it's no more difficult than reaching into an actual pocket and pulling something out.
I'm just wondering how to price as enhancement or separate trait if you have protections beyond "reach into a pocket".

Also say for example I'm a robot and my enemy reaches into me and tries to pull out my passenger: can my passenger grapple me to prevent this (ie the attacker needs to Break Free the passenger's grapple on my robot torso) ?

Stuff like "I have seatbelts, you must unbuckle them" I could see being priced as "Internal Extra Arms" maybe, in which case you can only grapple your internal passengers to help prevent them being abducted by someone who reaches inside your torso.

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
Having an Alternate Form means your compartment(s) shift in a safe manner when you transform, such that the contents aren't squished (unless your alternate form doesn't have a Payload, or has a smaller one). You don't need Switchable for your Alternate Form to have this benefit - it's just there so you don't have to empty your Payload before shifting.
Makes me wonder if "my Payloads deform and mess up the contents while I transform" could be some kind of Nuisance Effect.

Maybe the damage to contents inside a shrinking Payload could be similar to the damage someone with Growth takes when they try to get bigger inside a small compartment?
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Old 07-30-2021, 03:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

I've built it on two characters:

In a RIFTS adaptation, I had a full-conversion borg. She had a hidden compartment.

In a high-concept DF game, someone played a Terra-Cotta warrior. There was a scroll-case sculpted into his form.
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Old 07-30-2021, 04:32 PM   #24
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

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Payload was a crucial component of my Zombie Powered Armor build, although it was utilized for volume rather than weight (something not mentioned in OP - every lb of Payload is assumed to correspond to 0.05 cf of space; in many cases, this is probably safely ignored). One thing that came out of all that was the observation that, with high levels of Payload, it can be more efficient to just increase Lifting ST (particularly if you allow a Limitation for it to only apply to Payload - I marked this as -80%). Heck, with high enough of a Payload, outright increasing ST can be more efficient.
I don't think I'd call that a -80% limitation, because if you're taking it, it's reasonable to assume you have Payload. The examples for Accessibility (B110) show a -20% for something that's useful 50% of the time, and even quite rare applicability only gives -50%. I'd probably give -20%, because I'd assume that you'd be using the Payload pretty much all the time, and if you're looking to boost its capacity, you'll be tending to be up around it's weight limit, so that Lifting ST being useless for normal loads isn't that important to you.

That said, I'd be suspicious of such a build anyway. In my view generally if you want more of something that has levels, you should buy more of it, not look to buy more of some other thing that you then slap limitations on to make it not do what it normally does.
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Old 07-30-2021, 04:56 PM   #25
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

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I really like GhostDancer's idea of using a Cosmic Payload to allow for rapidly equipping stored weapons and armor, similar to Erza Scarlet from Fairy Tail.
She inspired it somewhat! Though it actually came from a ritual Tremere made in one of my oWoD games that I've just been respeccing for new systems since somewhere like 1996. :-)
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Old 07-31-2021, 02:53 AM   #26
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

Looking at some characters in my library (both mine and other players), i have :

Two characters with flesh pockets (one bioroid, one otherwise human with surgical mods)

Several characters with just enough hammerspace payload to store their signature gear weapon.

1 character with lots of hammerspace

1 character with the respawn build quoted above.
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Old 07-31-2021, 04:03 AM   #27
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

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Yes, with Multiplicative Modifiers, it is much more reasonable !

Note that I wasn't suggesting using it with warp but with the old "suicide express" when combined with unkillable 3 modified with a respawn point that can be set : set the respawn point to the destination, go pick up the load, die.

Not as practical as warp, especially if you have to travel to the destination first to set up the "save spot", but it can be useful.
At this point I've just switched over to Multiplicative Modifiers (and dropped the odd rule about ignoring limitations below -80%). I've found maybe two situations where it's too good, otherwise it generally helps make limitations actually worth it.

Definitely love the ability. Kind of a cute coincidence, my last character with Payload had a job as a courier and used Payload to get anything light to any location with zero chance of it getting stolen or lost.

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So here's a thought. While it doesn't count as encumbrance, I think it's reasonable to assume that without modification, Payload does count as weight. As in, if you step on a scale while your Payload is full, it'll give a higher number. I'd also assume that Cosmic, Extradimensional does not increase your weight.
Definitely agree here. If it didn't count as weight, then you'd be able to change your weight around fairly easy and substantially with a big Payload.
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Old 04-05-2022, 08:03 AM   #28
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

Is there a canonical way to apply a complicating Limitation to the act of storing/retrieving from Payload?
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Old 04-05-2022, 10:01 AM   #29
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

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Is there a canonical way to apply a complicating Limitation to the act of storing/retrieving from Payload?
I don't claim this is canon, but my guess is Preparation Required. If retrieval is faster thab that you might try Nuisance Effect.
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Old 04-05-2022, 03:43 PM   #30
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Payload

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Is there a canonical way to apply a complicating Limitation to the act of storing/retrieving from Payload?
I'm assuming you could tweak it by stuff like Reduced Time or Takes Extra Time but that needs a baseline time to affect and B74 doesn't seem to mention how long it takes to open/close the access port to your Payload, assuming you can even do that.

The closest I can think to this concept is "Accessory (Lock)" on pg 45 of Toolkit 2: Races which mentions "a mechanical or electronic lock that
restricts access to your interior, controls, or vital system"

I don't know if that's meant to reference your Payload. It seems like in some cases you need to be contained within a vehicle (be part of it's Payload) to access certain Controls.

B74 "If your occupants can control you, buy Controls separately" references B43 which doesn't specify WHERE controls are located...

This makes me curious though, if Controls are only usable by occupants (as opposed to anyone outside you who is not your Payload) would that possibly be grounds to call it an "Internal Advantage" and make it 1/5 cost?
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