Advice on equipment for a new GM

[clu2415]

I’m starting up a Dungeon Fantasy game with some friends. This is my first time running GURPS and my first time seeing it played in a fantasy genre. One of my players has experience with GURPS, but he rest are fairly new to RPGs in general. They’re counting on me for a lot of advice on their starting cash but I don’t want to screw them over

So far they’ve made a bard, scout, wizard, and druid. My last player is planning on a melee fighter. What’s your preferred armor for low ST types? Is a breastplate and helmet workable to start out? I guess if it doesn’t work out, I can drop some new armor as loot.

Also, I can’t find prices for beasts of burden, carts and wagons in my DF starter set. Where would you go for that? Basic Set? (I know my wife will want a poooony.) I had found Icelander’s horse stats and prices and was considering using them. Has anybody used them in DF?

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by clu2415

So far they’ve made a bard, scout, wizard, and druid. My last player is planning on a melee fighter. What’s your preferred armor for low ST types? Is a breastplate and helmet workable to start out? I guess if it doesn’t work out, I can drop some new armor as loot.

Buy Strength. There is no viable way to play a low strength melee fighter without breaking game assumptions.

Strength is one of the most overlooked and useful stats in DFRPG.

[clu2415]

The melee fighter is definitely going to have strength. He’ll have tons of armor options.

For the bard, scout, druid, wizard, I guess that’s the tradeoff for spending less points on strength?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by clu2415

Is a breastplate and helmet workable to start out?

On the whole I'd say you are better off with mediocre armor everywhere than with good armor in some locations and none in others, because opponents will aim for the uncovered spots, and damage anywhere can be disabling. Indeed in some ways the torso is the area where an injury is least likely to be disabling. Do get a shield (and shield skill) for any character that makes sense for though.

Also, I can’t find prices for beasts of burden, carts and wagons in my DF starter set. Where would you go for that? Basic Set? (I know my wife will want a poooony.)

Discourage her. What are you going to do with it while you are in the dungeon? Even if it will fit, bringing it along pretty much guarantees it will die. Leaving it unattended outside the dungeon, which isn't a safe neighborhood, means it dies or vanishes. Leaving a guard outside the dungeon with it, well it still isn't a safe neighborhood, and a guard strong enough to protect it would be better brought along to protect *you*, not to mention the problem of finding guards you can trust not to run away with your horses themselves.

Honestly anywhere monsters that can challenge PCs are an issue, horses are a liability. The only reason people in DF worlds travel with them at all is the genre conventions that maintain the fantastic middle ages scenery despite it not making any sense in a world like this.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by clu2415

The melee fighter is definitely going to have strength. He’ll have tons of armor options.

For the bard, scout, druid, wizard, I guess that’s the tradeoff for spending less points on strength?

I also think Strength is a good option for all of those professions as well. Perhaps slightly less so for a Wizard and some types of druids, but low Strength is not fun.

[Kalzazz]

Gear wise I suggest trying very hard to stick within the starting wealth and not spend points on cash if you can avoid it

Cheap armor just isn't that great, if you have some spare pounds and dollars get it, but it's heavy. I wouldn't make it much of a priority

[bocephus]

First off, your table, your players expectations, your fun. How you use the rules is up to you.

I don't particularly agree with some peoples definition of a "Dungeon Game" they get so focused on the dungeon they seem to forget the Fantasy. It seems right pointless and un-fun to just ignore everything except a hole in the ground that has stuff ... maybe. Also doesn't have to be only way you do a "dungeon", but if that's someones fun, more power to them its just not the only idea out there.

If you want to provide a price list for horses/carts/wagons then do it. Don't worry what everyone else says. Make something up that seems expensive if you want to discourage it, cheap if you want to encourage it (then have something eat em if it becomes a problem) and ball park it if your largely undecided but adding it for your PCs cause they expect it. Nothing better than being stranded with pieces of an Ox, some empty horse tack and a wagon full of loot you cant pull to town.

There is a few options in Basic and Low tech. If you want to import them do it. Especially if you and your players feel like its part of the world. That's the more important factor.

If its just general merchant stuff you can google stuff for basic marketplace prices. That should give you most of what you need for normal market place shopping without getting deep in the weeds.



Armor. pretty much moves from low ST to higher ST.

Cloth - casters and sometimes rogues and sometimes poor people.
Leather - occasionally casters, generally rogues, druids & bards often rangers starting clerics.
Chain - occasionally rangers & clerics almost always starting melee types.
Plate - generally the "Tank" archetype, paladins, and sometimes clerics.

Armor is protection and protection is weight, that means some ST if you want to carry anything else and even more if you want to carry stuff and fight. No way around that and a frankly a Fighter archetype with low ST will be very limited in weapons as well.

DFRPG leans more towards functional archetypes. Just like that other game, making a low DX rogue is just going to be awkward, or a low ST fighter a struggle, or a low IQ caster ineffective. Thats why the templates give the options they do.



Is Helmet and BP doable?
If the char can carry it, sure
if the char wants it, definitely
if the char thinks that's all they need, might be misinformed
Will it make the char useless, no
Will it make the char effective, possibly
will it make the char invincible, nope
Will it meet the requirements of the archetype, depends
Is that the characters end goal or just that's what he has money to start with? Either way dont get super wrapped up in the "CORRECT" answer, you'll never ever find one hehheh

[bocephus]

Originally Posted by Kalzazz

Gear wise I suggest trying very hard to stick within the starting wealth and not spend points on cash if you can avoid it

I agree with Kalzazz on that one. Its going to depend on your skills as a GM and what the PCs are trying to do, and that will get easier with experience.

The simplest thing with money is to stick close to the rules so there is less confusion while you learn the system. Its ok to be generous and regret it, that's part of learning.

Its easy to inject money with some quick "test" encounters that might be intended to be easy, and add some bonus money if you have people that really need better gear. It doesn't hurt to make sure that new RPG people can have some successes early on.

Starting with less than optimal gear is part of the game, thats sorta where the adventures come in. If your fighter can only afford a breastplate and helm, maybe offer a downgrade of the BP in favor of a chain hauberk and some greaves. That will be better overall coverage for same(ish) money.

[Dalin]

Originally Posted by clu2415

I’m starting up a Dungeon Fantasy game with some friends. This is my first time running GURPS and my first time seeing it played in a fantasy genre. One of my players has experience with GURPS, but he rest are fairly new to RPGs in general. They’re counting on me for a lot of advice on their starting cash but I don’t want to screw them over.

Remember that you're the GM, so you don't have to screw them over even if your advice is imperfect. If you forget to recommend that they buy light sources, put a crate of torches in the dungeon's antechamber. If their armor isn't cutting it in the first adventure, provide enough loot for them to upgrade (or, in a pinch, something magical that can be immediately employed).

What’s your preferred armor for low ST types? Is a breastplate and helmet workable to start out?

I usually buy suits of armor. As others have pointed out, it sucks to get your arm crippled in the first battle. For starters, I usually buy leather or heavy leather. I save up my loot to quickly upgrade to some defensive enchantments and weight reduction.

I guess if it doesn’t work out, I can drop some new armor as loot.

Spoken like a veteran GM.

Also, I can’t find prices for beasts of burden, carts and wagons in my DF starter set. Where would you go for that?

For DFRPG, I would turn to Douglas Cole's excellent work. Hall of Judgment includes a table of pack animals with prices, carrying capacities, and movement rates.

Of course, @malloyd is correct that horses and ponies don't do well in dungeons and could get eaten by ogres and trolls in the woods. Or, if you like the genre conventions that he alludes to, you could just allow the pony to survive. (And if that feels too handwavy, have your wife's character discover a magical figurine of a pony that can shrink and expand upon command. This won't break the game and may earn you some marital brownie points.) Or invent a new type of pony (called, say, a giant spider or an ankylosaur) that does just fine in dungeons.

Most importantly, have a blast! I'm a big fan of DFRPG. My adult group just wrapped up our second big campaign and I'll be back in the GM's chair next month. Your players are in for a treat.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by bocephus

.

Armor. pretty much moves from low ST to higher ST.

Cloth - casters and sometimes rogues and sometimes poor people.
Leather - occasionally casters, generally rogues, druids & bards often rangers starting clerics.
Chain - occasionally rangers & clerics almost always starting melee types.
Plate - generally the "Tank" archetype, paladins, and sometimes clerics.

h

This is not at all how DFRPG handles armour.


Cost is in fact the biggest drawbacks of the heavier/ better types of armour and then weight.


In fact the heavier types of armour are much more efficient than cloth/leather and chain.

In fact a 'tank' will usually wear cloth/leather under Plate for even more DR. See spider silk for light and very good. It should be worn by all rich PCs barring something better - read magic


Leather and cloth are treated as identical in DFRPG. So there is no distinction there at all. Leather isn't really a great thing IRL or DFRPG - Low Tech goes into this a lot (for actual specific leather) which is where DFRPG Armour comes from.

Mail is a step down in DR from Plate, but weights only marginally less . The big difference is cost. A starting PC might wear chain precisely because they can't afford Plate, but if you have $ you would never choose mail (barring magic), some stealth (read magic) mail or some other sort of reason, but it won't be weight.

There are no 'rangers' in DFRPG, but a strong scout would be much efficient to wear a magic, fine plate breast plate than leather chest. Once again cost is likely to be the limitation here given high ST on a Scout is actually pretty useful.

Given the danger of Skull hits in GURPS very high quality expensive magic helmets make a lot of sense on ALL PCs. They are relatively light and why wouldn't you want DR 10+ on your skull rather than a cloth skull piece which will do sweet FA when you get 1d6 armour piercing arrows to your skull.