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Old 02-11-2008, 07:02 PM   #81
Crakkerjakk
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Nit-pick on the scope FAQ. I believe that a variable power scope only allows you to set your high power scope to a lower value, to reduce the time you spend aiming. What the book says is

With a fixed-power scope, you must aim for at least as many seconds as the scope's bonus. With a variable-power scope, you may Aim for fewer seconds, but this reduces your bonus by a like amount. B412
(stolen from your site)

Now, if I set my x3-x9 scope to x9, there is no difference between it and a x9 fixed scope. However, what I can do is dial the scope down to x3, and it takes much less time for me to acquire a target. All the book says is that I may aim for fewer seconds but this reduces the bonus. It doesn't say I get +1 bonus per turn. Now, I'll admit that this is very open to interpretation, but I don't see why two x9 scopes that differ only in whether they are called "fixed" or "variable" get a +3 bonus at the end of three turns of aiming vs. +1 per turn for three turns. I would say that changing the scope to a different value would require a ready maneuver, as it requires about as much effort as changing a weapon from single-shot to full auto using a fire selector switch and a ready maneuver is suggested for this.(HT82)
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Old 02-11-2008, 08:55 PM   #82
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

In Melee Combat Two, Turn Four, you've got Green doing an All-Out Attack (Double), rolling against his Shortsword skill, when in fact he has Broadsword. Other than that, great stuff, keep up the good work!
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Old 02-11-2008, 09:19 PM   #83
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk
Nit-pick on the scope FAQ. I believe that a variable power scope only allows you to set your high power scope to a lower value, to reduce the time you spend aiming.[snip]
:: scratches head :: Um, ya know - after your explaining it like that, I'm not sure how I interpreted it the way I did. The way you posted seems more internally consistent, and more common sensical - I'll adjust the FAQ (and Ranged Example Two).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkclaw
In Melee Combat Two, Turn Four, you've got Green doing an All-Out Attack (Double), rolling against his Shortsword skill, when in fact he has Broadsword. Other than that, great stuff, keep up the good work!
Oops, did the same thing in Turn Three as well - fixed. Thanks Darkclaw!
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:39 AM   #84
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

mook,

I spotted several problems in the beginning, but the hive mind has corrected them by now. I just want to thank you for the combat examples. Keep up with the good work!

Cheers,

M.
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:01 PM   #85
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Will do Mercator, thanks for the encouragement.

You folks on the forums have been doing a great job of keeping me on my toes and polishing the rough edges. :)
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:00 PM   #86
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
Will do Mercator, thanks for the encouragement.

You folks on the forums have been doing a great job of keeping me on my toes and polishing the rough edges. :)
Thanks, Mook - these examples are great. I can't help but think, however, that if it is difficult in a written example, it's impossible at the table!

We're going to try to put together a "Tome of Combat" for our group, so we at least have a chance of finding the relevant rules, never mind applying them correctly!
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:30 PM   #87
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

What I do personally is to have characters have a Modus Operandi.

Attack maneuvers, defensive maneuvers, what to use against armored foes, what to use against multiple foes, etc. Essentially, how would they fight, and when?

Just listing some of your favored attack options is great. Scribe down beats if you're strong, feints if you have a decent DX, and a Ruse if you have a decent IQ.

In fact, sometimes it's best to have a good mix of characters, each having their own abilities in combat! Then, as all of your "favorite" rules are scribbled down, others can use them if it comes up. For instance, the gunbunny can hand over the ranged mods to the knife fighter that finally decided to throw his knife, etc.
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:37 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanderom
Thanks, Mook - these examples are great. I can't help but think, however, that if it is difficult in a written example, it's impossible at the table!
Well hopefully that's not the case. :)

Most of the reason it takes me so long to write these is I'm a bit of a stickler for perfection, and just the formatting of the html itself; plus, in actual play there are probably a few optional rules here and there that I wouldn't be using.

I find the GURPS Combat Cards to be extremely helpful while playing (I even made up my own for 3e before they were official) - print up a set for each player, then they can just pick the card matching their maneuver for the turn and (in theory) have all the rules they'll need right there on the card.

I also think it's important to distinguish between these examples as a learning tool, sort of a theoretical review, and running real games. In actual play, like Lonewulf mentioned, players tend to choose the same actions in combat, so the group quickly picks those rules up - no need to learn the rules for, say, hollow point bullets until someone in the group plans to use 'em.

Wow, that was longer than I intended, oh well - mostly just wanted to say that in actual play I think GURPS runs just fine, and the rules get picked up pretty quickly.
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Old 02-13-2008, 05:01 PM   #89
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

I tried an alternate formatting for the examples - don't really like it, but thought others might want to take a peek:

http://www.themook.net/rpg/examples/...php?id=one-alt
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:41 PM   #90
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
I tried an alternate formatting for the examples - don't really like it, but thought others might want to take a peek:

http://www.themook.net/rpg/examples/...php?id=one-alt
I agree, I like the old one much better. It's much more neat. I don't think people actually need the turn reference at every single roll. So a single Turn one at the start of that turn is enough IMO. I actually feel I have an easier time navigating the example as the TURN ONE in capitalised black bold on the white background stands out more clearly than the (Turn One), which is in the same format as the character-name, (parentese, underlined and in the same colour) and also it fades out a bit as it is in the same shade of colour as the background.

So I say; please keep the current one :)


Btw. in this example (Melee 1), in turn 2, when Arthur Green parries. You might want to note that he could make a retreating parry for +1 to skill. I see no reason why he shouldn't do so as they both have the same reach of weapons there is no drawback, and he would increase his chance to parry by 12,5%! (from 9 to 10)).
The same goes for all the dodges. I have never seen a GURPS combat were people do not retreat at every possible chance they get (unless of course they face someone with longer reach).

[Edit]
Turn 3. You note his arm is crippled because of the Accumulated Wounds rule. You should note that this is an Optional rule, not everyone use it, I don't. If your examples are supposed to be a help for newbies I don't think you should include optional rules, and if you do, you should clearly note them as such.
Not that it matters for the rest of the combat, but you might also note that when he is 'knocked down' he drops his mace. This means he can't use it to parry against the next attacks.

Turn 4. The prone Zach Red has a dodge of "0". This is not true. Shock does not give a penalty to Dodge (see page 419 "Shock" and p.421 "Temporary Attribute Penalties"). Had he not managed to succeed his HT Stun-check however, he would have been at -4 from that.
Also I am unsure if you should halve dodge before or after modifiers. I think you are right, that it is before. So it would be 8/2 -3 = 1... not much better than before, ehe. Hmm I wonder if being prone prevents you from making a retreating dodge.... I'm gonna start a new topic about that.


Melee 3.
You might want to note that their dodges are lowered by 1 because of their encumbrance, seeing as you include the encumbrance in the example.

Turn 1. I think that you should note that he gets -4 to his attack for the 'Move and Attack', it would matter if he only had 11 or 12 in skill. Also, why is he running all the way into Reach 1? when his weapon has Reach 2 and the opponent do not?

Wohoo, now they take retreating actions. Ehe. Ok so you hadn't "forgotten" about it. But I still think it should be in the earlier examples as well, as it is one of the most fundamental combat options.

Turn 3. Spending FP for Extra Effort in combat is an optional rule.
... hey why doesn't Arthur Green retreat when he parries?


Unarmed combat 1.
Turn three. Zach is noted as suffering from Shock -4 when he is lying prone and trying to dodge. He shouldn't be. I know this is just a typo as you note that he gains shock when the punches hit home.
You note "As this was a hit to the Face sufficient to cause a Shock penalty, Zach would normally check for Knockdown and Stunning; however, he is already prone and suffering Stun."
You should still roll as a Failure by 5 or more means he passes out.

Unarmed combat 2.
You could include a few more options in this example instead of the many Deceptive attack. For instance one of them might benefit more by taking a 'Feint' manoeuvre.

Turn four. You might want to note that not only can Arthur Green not parry because he is using his hands... he can't not make a retreating dodge either (unless he lets go). Actually even if you do not want to include this, I think you should rephrase it. right now it sounds as by the rules, he can't parry as he is grappling with both arms. He could chose to parry with one arm, letting go of Zach with that arm, while maintaining a grip with the other.

---
Just wanted to add in that I really, really like your examples. I think it's a great initiative and a great tool for newbies. I plan on sending a couple of new players in my current campaign your way so that they get a better understanding on the combat rules.

Last edited by Maz; 02-13-2008 at 09:02 PM.
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