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Old 05-14-2015, 01:13 AM   #61
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

Health risks have always been important too. Even when birth control was very hit or miss, women still found ways to reduce the chances of having that Xth pregnancy when they knew it would have been too much of a physical hardship to endure.
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:49 AM   #62
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Something to consider:

The major limit to population growth in modern societies is not how fast women can produce babies, but the cost of raising them and educating them so they can contribute in their turn.
Agreed, care care provision and creches would be more useful than biotech!
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Old 05-14-2015, 11:56 AM   #63
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
Yeah, really bad title, but it was the best I could come up with. Any way this is an idea that I've been kicking around for some time, this template represents female space colonists from a society that uses genetic engineering on it's colonists. The behind this particular group of modifications is to cause population to grow faster by skewing births to favor female. Because most of the items on this list are features they're listed alphabetically by TL to make reading easier, it also suggests multiple versions as TL progress as technology progress. Format is Trait, (Page number in Bio-Tech, followed by numbers in other books) [Point Cost] and TL

Attractive (45/B21)[4] TL9
Altered Sex Ratio (59) [0] TL9*
Extended Fertility (59) [0] TL9
Increased Fecundity (59) [0] TL9
Light Menses (58) [0] TL9
Sexual Orientation (Bi-Sexual)(59) [0] TL9


Easy Childbirth (58) [0] TL10
Modified Genetic Inheritance (Does not pass Traits on to male children)(59) [0] TL10

Right, the core of this is the Altered Sex Ratio trait, it's basically the whole idea. The Extended Fertility and Increased Fecundity are both the sorts of thing to be expected from such an upgrade, and adding Light Menses whilst making these changes makes a lot of sense. The Sexual Orientation is more the sort of thing that gets thrown in there by someone thinking it's a good idea, probably as some sort of compensation to the girls, or to make the whole thing more livable for everyone.

Easy Childbirth, if available is just a must have on this sort of thing, and given that it's likely to end up making the hips wider and coupled with a breast enhancement you just know someone's going to suggest Attractive makes sense and is likely to be part of a higher TL package. And as for MGI? Well it sort of makes sense, this stuff isn't going to be passed onto guys.

I did consider Extreme Sexual Dimorphism (170) in place of Attractive, but it didn't seem to fit. Likewise Lecherousness was considered, but it also doesn't seem to fit, it's styled for someone who's on the chase, not in a stable relationship.

An alternate version may have a male version which has the Altered Sex Ratio which would make the whole thing self-correcting,

So, thoughts?
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:11 PM   #64
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
Yeah, really bad title, but it was the best I could come up with. Any way this is an idea that I've been kicking around for some time, this template represents female space colonists from a society that uses genetic engineering on it's colonists. The behind this particular group of modifications is to cause population to grow faster by skewing births to favor female. Because most of the items on this list are features they're listed alphabetically by TL to make reading easier, it also suggests multiple versions as TL progress as technology progress. Format is Trait, (Page number in Bio-Tech, followed by numbers in other books) [Point Cost] and TL

Attractive (45/B21)[4] TL9
Altered Sex Ratio (59) [0] TL9*
Extended Fertility (59) [0] TL9
Increased Fecundity (59) [0] TL9
Light Menses (58) [0] TL9
Sexual Orientation (Bi-Sexual)(59) [0] TL9


Easy Childbirth (58) [0] TL10
Modified Genetic Inheritance (Does not pass Traits on to male children)(59) [0] TL10

Right, the core of this is the Altered Sex Ratio trait, it's basically the whole idea. The Extended Fertility and Increased Fecundity are both the sorts of thing to be expected from such an upgrade, and adding Light Menses whilst making these changes makes a lot of sense. The Sexual Orientation is more the sort of thing that gets thrown in there by someone thinking it's a good idea, probably as some sort of compensation to the girls, or to make the whole thing more livable for everyone.

Easy Childbirth, if available is just a must have on this sort of thing, and given that it's likely to end up making the hips wider and coupled with a breast enhancement you just know someone's going to suggest Attractive makes sense and is likely to be part of a higher TL package. And as for MGI? Well it sort of makes sense, this stuff isn't going to be passed onto guys.

I did consider Extreme Sexual Dimorphism (170) in place of Attractive, but it didn't seem to fit. Likewise Lecherousness was considered, but it also doesn't seem to fit, it's styled for someone who's on the chase, not in a stable relationship.

An alternate version may have a male version which has the Altered Sex Ratio which would make the whole thing self-correcting,

So, thoughts?
Is it in fact the best bet to abnormally optimize so large a population for reproduction? Would not it be in fact preferable for them to have qualities that are associated with Determined Homesteaders' Wives? If they survive and are reasonably fertile the next generation will take care of itself while if they do not survive you have a generation of motherless and likely dysfunctional children.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:28 PM   #65
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

Suppose on your planet made by the GM to train the faithful the original colony is 5000 men and 5000 women. Of these 4000 women live to bear an average of three children while one thousand die of whatever. Two thousand men are projected to die.

We now have seven thousand of the old guard. And twelve thousand of the new generation, making a total of nineteen thousand. And so on ad infinitum.

Assuming no disaster arises it is mathematically inevitable, even postulating fairly high casualties, for the colony to spread and grow. A reasonably healthy but otherwise normal human female would be your best bet, especially one's knowledgeable enough to establish a system of specialized labor that can make for a prosperous society. In other words we would want most of the same qualities for women as for men with something of a bias in women toward reproduction and care, and something of a bias in men for defense(assuming exowombs are not used, making recourse to the natural optimization already given by women mandatory). In other words the woman will not develop into anything like that. If anything, the culture is just as likely to develop something of the reverse with a large proportion of tomboyish women as compared to the core worlds.

Sex machines, whether genetically or culturally engineered are not a viable proposition on the frontier simply because women's labor is needed too. They are more a luxury of decadent folk at the Imperial Palace who can afford to pay for it.
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Old 05-14-2015, 08:10 PM   #66
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

When I read the title, my first thought was why would male and female colonists have different templates? Then I realized, oh...

I think this is based on several major misconceptions:
1. More pregnancies or greater sex drive does not necessarily mean greater population growth. Improving survivability of offspring does. As K type reproducers, humans fit into the second category. Humans reproduce about as quickly as we ever have but population growth skyrocketed when we hit the Industrial Revolution and was aided by 20th century medicine. A TL 9 society would be able to reproduce even faster than a modern one, not because women can produce more offspring, but because each child has a much larger chance of survival.

Also, with a colony, survival of the colony is based on far more than how many babies they can make. Human offspring take a large amount of resources before they can contribute to the colony's productivity (reproductive or otherwise). Having to devote even more resources than usual to them because your colony is producing more of them would just exacerbate this. It would probably reduce the colony's overall chance of survival from stifling economic growth, standard of living, and quality of life which reduces life expectancy. As I explained above, this would hurt the growth of the population.

2. Minimum viable population relies on total number of individuals, regardless of gender. Having more women than men just reduces genetic diversity because the number of pairings each generation is limited by the number of men.
Example: 1 man, 2 women gives you 1 generation before inbreeding. 2 men, 2 women gives you 2 generations because each couple's children won't be related. This extrapolates to any number of individuals up to the minimum genetically viable population which for humans is probably a couple hundred. If you're starting with more than that, population growth will already be massive so it isn't much of an issue, unless the goal is creating an ecumenopolis within a couple centuries. But, if your colonists are humans, why would spreading as rapidly as possible be the goal? I'm sure there are setting backgrounds that justify this, but i don't believe one has been provided.

Unless you're just looking for a way to justify having an entire planet of horny, bisexual, beautiful, big breasted women that vastly outnumber men...in which case don't bother; just paint 'em blue and throw 'em in there.
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:48 PM   #67
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

The fact is the human body is already made to survive and multiply under harsh conditions. If the colony is on an earth type world a normal human can adapt to it. If it is so hostile that genetic engineering is needed to survive on it, then the engineering needs to focus elsewhere.
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Old 05-15-2015, 12:44 AM   #68
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Something to consider:

The major limit to population growth in modern societies is not how fast women can produce babies, but the cost of raising them and educating them so they can contribute in their turn.
That's secondary to the poverty effect, posibly even a symptom to the cause.

When there is a low chance of becoming a successful adult, either due to health or economic reasons then large family size is the norm. But as the chance to reach the goal grows, The family size shrinks to conctrate attention one fewer offspring.
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:04 AM   #69
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

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That's secondary to the poverty effect, posibly even a symton to the cause.

When there is a low chance of becoming a successful adult, either Dow to teary or echno ic reasons the large family size is the norm. But as the chance to reach the goal grows, The family size shrinks to conctrate attention one fewer offspring.
Assuming the planet is cultivatable and previously uninhabited there is enough room for several generations to count on having a pretty large size spread. After all we are talking about a planet.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:13 AM   #70
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Default Re: [Bio-Tech] Template for Female Space Colonists

1. Are there any female players in this game? Because despite all the hullabaloo about population growth that template stinks of puerile male fantasy. I can't imagine "out of the box" a woman wanting to play in such a colony. "I have to be a submissive bi-sexual baby maker?" "Is this 1950? I swear the earliest GURPS precursor was made in the late 70's..."

2. A 50/50 ratio of men/women limited to 100,000 sent far away to build a colony? There will be hook-ups and reproduction. Aplenty. I could imagine a screening process for colonists where you look for ideal specimens of your species (ala 1950's sci-fi...). Try and limit genetic defects, etc. I believe the biotech used here would more likely be screening up front and manipulation during gestation. You send up beautiful healthy people in a limited population pool and then make sure the babies they make lack any genetic defects.

3. There are always many ways to "skin a cat" (although I find that colloquialism to be disgusting...); What's the actual problem you're trying to solve? People won't be sexually interested enough to reproduce? Population growth under normal human conditions won't be fast enough?

My impression of the problems this genetic template solves... Women often choose not to mate because #freedom #choices. Men working hard in a colony won't be sexually aroused enough to mate at a reasonable rate and need visual girl-on-girl sexy times to increase libido. Multiple partner sex could involve other men. Women are historically sexually active beyond any focus on career, personal preservation or reason so if they want each other it will help reduce conflict while we recruit our male colonists. No one wants an ugly girl. Menstruation is gross. Childbirth is painful and slow. Women want to do things besides what they were made for, so we should tune them up to do what they were made for - willingly. (I use that term loosely)

In summary; girls need a serious genetic redesign because the default natural made ones are broken.

Which is problematic from my perspective as a feminist. This is a terrible design for an RPG setting that has anything to do with actually playing a game.

First, I think you should state what you believe are the problems your culture is trying to solve. They are not clear to me. Second, I think you should tune up your culture so it can survive contact with the ultimate goal of an RPG, which is being played where it's possible some of those players will be women. Third, you should figure out FIRST what the characters do in this game and tune it accordingly. Finally, once you figure all this out come up with a solution that doesn't involve bi-sexual submissive barbie dolls who like popping out babies.

Now. This is assuming you want to run a space-based colony game of some kind and actually care about how women feel about your game. If instead you're designing a caricature of a Space Station 76 meets Austin Powers meets Playboy After Dark then you nailed it. If your setting is designed for players to explore a strange "what if" erotically-charged culture, just be sure to paint that message on the tin. In bold letters. IMHO a setting doesn't even have to be plausible as long as everyone is on the same page. However, I would toss out any goal of being "realistic" with these female "colonists".

Your setting: The oligarchy wanted a male paradise to colonize with the "perfect woman" - What do you do?

You may want to tread carefully with female players as some may find your caricature amusing while others may just kick you in the shins and run-away. YMMV of course.

Just my two cents...
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