Ziusudra / Nyx questions

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Socially, they make as much sense as SAIs and LAIs, really. Just with a different carrier.

If that was true than nobody would express disbelief about "the return of slavery". Clearly there's a belief suspension issue here for many people.

There is a serious problem with the legal status of bioroids in the US. If they are minors than they shouldn't be allowed to work as adults and it should be illegal for them to have sex. If they aren't minors than the whole indentured ward thing falls apart. The only way it works is if they have a whole other legal status that exempts them from some but not all of the protections guaranteed by the 14th admendment. It's legally dubious, I think, that the Supreme Court could do this without any action from Congress.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If that was true than nobody would express disbelief about "the return of slavery". Clearly there's a belief suspension issue here for many people.

There is a serious problem with the legal status of bioroids in the US. If they are minors than they shouldn't be allowed to work as adults and it should be illegal for them to have sex. If they aren't minors than the whole indentured ward thing falls apart. The only way it works is if they have a whole other legal status that exempts them from some but not all of the protections guaranteed by the 14th admendment. It's legally dubious, I think, that the Supreme Court could do this without any action from Congress.

Well, the working-ward thing does look weird to me. But I think we're seeing it as weird because we can't wrap our heads around it from the opposite direction. Bioroids in THS aren't people that got downgraded to indentured wards; they're organic machines* that got their rights upgraded to this weird limited 'minor' status, largely because biochauvinists can be nice people too (but restrict their niceness to bio-sapient entities only).

* == Or visually humanoid, nano-assembled, artificial aliens/animals/whatever you call the species that is clearly not homo sapience, in case this footnote is needed to postpone another machine/not_machine debate.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, the working-ward thing does look weird to me. But I think we're seeing it as weird because we can't wrap our heads around it from the opposite direction. Bioroids in THS aren't people that got downgraded to indentured wards; they're organic machines* that got their rights upgraded to this weird limited 'minor' status, largely because biochauvinists can be nice people too (but restrict their niceness to bio-sapient entities only).

The 14th admendment doesn't actually define "person" though.

Originally Posted by 14th admendment

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I don't believe that the Supreme Court is actually able to say that it applies to some kind of legal non-person in a piecemeal way. If it could then the Southern Democrat Reformers could have just reinstituted slavery by passing laws that made slaves and their descendents legal non-persons.

At any rate "seeing it as weird" is what Anthony is talking about when he say "they don't make much sense ... socially".

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

They make sense technologically as the outcome of nanotech

The issue isn't "is it life or isn't it". The problem is that they're too humanlike, and yet achieve inhuman performance in certain areas. I believe I've talked about my favored model before: a biocomputer in a manufactured body, structural similarities may only be skin-deep, and genetically unrelated to human.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

a biocomputer in a manufactured body,

Biocomputers seem dubious when compared to conventional computers, though.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Biocomputers seem dubious when compared to conventional computers, though.

A brain is a form of biocomputer, and your other option is "no bioroids at all".

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

A brain is a form of biocomputer,

Sure but unless you are willing to undergo destructive uploading, then you are kind of stuck with it.

and your other option is "no bioroids at all".

Yeah, that's the problem isn't it. But it's hard to justify not replacing your biocomputer with VII and Puppet implant, unless it's way cheaper. If Biocomputers are way cheaper than you'd expect to see them as competitive with other shells (notably 'frames) as well then.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If Biocomputers are way cheaper than you'd expect to see them as competitive with other shells (notably 'frames) as well then.

I don't have a serious problem with that, though you wind up with some specialized flaws. Basically, see this thread for my preferences.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The whole system is built.

You say that, however it is spelled out that there exist injuries that bioroids heal from without undergoing maintenance, so they do have the capability for new cells and tissues to grow. This makes it a possibility that some growth can go on during the assembly process, unless there's consistent textev against it.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

You say that, however it is spelled out that there exist injuries that bioroids heal from without undergoing maintenance, so they do have the capability for new cells and tissues to grow. This makes it a possibility that some growth can go on during the assembly process, unless there's consistent textev against it.

Yes, they are alive, of course they can grow. I wasn't being literal I was using "built" as "constructed via biogenesis tissue-by-tissue as a fully grown adult" versus "developed from a zygote into a fetus, then was born as a infant, which grows into an adult in a process called childhood" or "grown".